Clothing Adjustments

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/schoolcorporalpunishment/clothing-adjustments-t2455.html

A recent office conversation, about which more later, has reminded me of methods previously mentioned on this forum. Notably by A_L in his blow by blow description of the very first CP event that he admits deeply affected him. Just to remind people, he witnessed as a class the slippering of a girl whilst in PE, where as was the normal procedure in primary school in those days, the children simply wore their underwear. The teacher concerned having told the girl to bend over, then required an adjustment of her knickers, to the point which no doubt revealed a greater area of bare flesh upon which to operate.

Thinking back, I too can remember something similar happening in my own Primary School, some ten years later. In the second year, we had a very attractive, tall and slim lady teacher, who for obvious reasons was a favourite with the boys, that is until discipline was called for. Her name unfortunatley led to many a sore bottom as we couldn’t resist the temptation to use her name, Mrs Mann in a rhyme of “Mrs Mann, Mrs Mann, has a face like a frying pan!” She didn’t of course, but her methods soon cured boys of such banter. Like many others lady teachers in junior schools at that time, she did not use an implement but relied on her hand. However, her own style made a simple spanking, something to be avoided. She would sit on the corner of her desk and pull the boy over her knee, tucking his head under her left arm. At the same time, she would pull sharply on the hem of the leg of the boys shorts, ostensibly to bare as much leg as possible. This was probably a common method in use at that time, but where she differed from others is that an extra sharp tug would often result in the sudden exposure of the lower part of a boys bottom, which I remember seemed to appear with a sudden plop. Then a series of very sharp and rapid slaps would ensue, which as any boy will tell you can be exceedingly painful. The boys would be left with a sore bottom and leg, often in tears and covered in handprints. Once seen in action many of us chose to behave impeccably in her class! It goes without saying that no such punishment of girls ever took place, if girls were ever involved in being naughty, it was deemed as not meriting such punishment on that occasion.

There have no doubt been other more notable occasions when adjustment of clothing has come to the attention of the public in court proceedings. The one I remember reading about is the famous Helston Mixed Grammar School case where the Head and Senior Mistress made adjustments to the knickers of two older girls before beating them with a clothes brush, effectively turning it into a bare bottom punishment. Details can be read elswhere on this forum.

Now the incident that spurred me to write this thread. I have always been careful when the topic of the cane or the slipper get’s discussed round the canteen table. To show any sort of interest in this topic can be seen as inappropriate at the best of times, so I often do more listening than talking! After a general discussion of the usual type about “bring back the cane”, some interesting stories were told. One of which I will relate here. The girl/woman telling the story, said that a particular male teacher in her primary school, used to spend an unusual amount of time over giving boys the slipper, much of which was taken up by folding up the legs of the boys shorts until as much bare flesh as possible was revealed. The teacher then peppered the boy with his size ten gymshoe until tears were forthcoming. As with many such tales during canteen banter, things can get a little exaggerated to the point of a Monty Python script, but I am sure that this girl was quite sincere and not normally prone to exaggeration.

Where A_L may be able to help authenticate or otherwise the probability of this tale is that the young woman concerned is now in her mid thirties, so that would put her in primary school in the late seventies. Would such a thing have happened at that time? I thought that corporal punishment in the primary school sector had tailed off by then. Also I do not know the actual school, but I know that it wasn’t a million miles from J26 M1. I believe that this is in A_L’s neck of the woods! It wasn’t possible for me to enquire if any girls were ever subject to slippering at her school, but from the conversation it appeared it was just boys.

The whole reason for the thread is that it seems such behaviour by teachers seems to cover three decades at the very least and I wondered if there are any other known events that forum members can relate to which would show this to be a common method.

Oliver_S

Hi Oliver_S. You say in your opening paragraph with reference to one of my posts here:

where as was the normal procedure in primary school in those days, the children simply wore their underwear.

Not correct, I’m afraid. If you reread the post concerned you’ll find I said:

We had to change for PT. Boys wore navy PT shorts and girls wore a green PT shirt and green gym knickers, always referred to for some reason by pupils and teachers alike, as ‘green things’, as in “go and get your green things on girls”, which signalled their departure to the comfortable upstairs changing room, whilst we lads had to manage with what was effectively a large cupboard under the admittedly fairly palatial stairs.

As regards your query about J26 late 70s primary schools I can’t help I’m afraid. I’d been left primary school over 20 years by then. And for the record I’m a J27 man! 

Oliver S

Like you , I have had quite a few conversations at work about the subject of corporal punishment, and also I take care not to sound too interested although naturally this is very difficultm especially if a woman is talking about the subject.

I am from the East Midlands though I think most English schools used similar methods of corporal punishment, Slippering at my schools was always done over clothing, though one teacher used to hand out leg slaps. She would pull up your trouser leg, or skirt, and deliver about 10 hard smacks on the thigh.

Some of the girls I have spoken to on the subject of CP have been 10 years younger than me so would have been at junior school in the 1970s, and they have related the slipperings they got, both at junior and senior school, We can be rest assured that corporal punishment was very widespread at all schools in the 1970s.

A_L

I apoligise if I quoted you incorrectly. It was the sentiment of the actions at the time that I wished to get across. This I still believe to be correct, if not word for word.

I will lift out text portions next time, but I was merely trying to save the time of searching for the original item, we spend too much time “lurking about” on this forum as it is.

Also, never thought that a Nottinghamshire chap could be so colloquial with regard to events or regulations in his county, though I fear the passage of some twenty years might make a difference!

I get the impression that you still regard me as some sort of Eric II (or III or IV or V)…oh well.

Oliver_S

Hi Oliver_S.  You say:

I get the impression that you still regard me as some sort of Eric II (or III or IV or V)…oh well.

Most certainly not!  I personally regard you as a serious contributor who would benefit this estimable Forum if he posted more frequently.  If I have posted anything to give you any impression to the contrary then please accept my apologies and my assurance that there has been a misunderstanding.

Oliver is right to point out the tricks of the trade that have been used over the years.

Many years ago when Peter Newell released his book The Last Resort, which was I think a STOPP bible at the time, there appeared many other supporting anecdotes in papers and periodicals. I remember reading about a school or schools that surprisingly caned its girls on the bottom in the 50’s. The point is though that the pleated gymslip, underskirt and knickers worn as uniform provided too much protection because of the loose folds. This school or schools in a particular area used the humble clothes peg to tighten the target area. The trick was to get the girl to pull her gymslip through her legs causing the material to stretch tight over her bottom. Then a clothes peg or pegs were attached to keep the material tight. Then as she bent over, things became tighter still but stayed in place due to the pegs.

Does this ring any bells in those of you old enough to remember the 50’s?

The story in print did have the ring of truth about it at the time, maybe more probable than the regular tales of boys being made to change into PE kit for caning (no underpants of course!).

Zeno

Hi Zeno.  You say of the article you recall regarding caning over gymslips in certain schools in the 1950s:

This school or schools in a particular area used the humble clothes peg to tighten the target area. The trick was to get the girl to pull her gymslip through her legs causing the material to stretch tight over her bottom. Then a clothes peg or pegs were attached to keep the material tight. Then as she bent over, things became tighter still but stayed in place due to the pegs.

Fetish schoolgirl CP stories make much of skirts being raised and pinned up by methodical headmistresses prior to punishment, though whether this ever happened in reality I know not.

Clothes pegs though, that’s a totally new one on me in that context, and I’m certainly old enough to remember the 1950s!  The method of drawing the back of the skirt forward between the legs to tighten it over the target area occurs in this extract from ‘The Female Disciplinary Manual’ courtesy of ‘The Feminine Publishing Co.’^{Note 1}.  Absolutely no mention of clothes pegs though.

The Female Disciplinary Manual is of course a work of fiction, and was not, I think, written until some time after the 1950s.  It is therefore entirely possible that actual events in a school or schools may have influenced the author.  Indeed I believe the Aristasians (Miss Martindale etc.), under whose aegis the manual was published, purport to live by 1950s standards.

Note 1:  I have mentioned this before, but a further warning may be appropriate.  There are some ‘Female Disciplinary Manual’ videos linked from the Feminine Publishing Co. page above.  DO NOT WATCH THEM!  Depending on your temperament you will either die laughing or become suicidal and cast yourself off a high building.  You have been warned!  

There are clothing adjustments in this totally out of control school that prof n mentioned after I did sometime before.  Wedgies are lifing up the trousers.

The wedgies is not to hurt the genitals but boys wear baggy pants and that’s why it’s necessary to life the pants but that’s not something she tells you. Checking the back of the trousers is to search for possible hurtful objects but not cushions as Paula Flowe mentions.

The unfortunate thing about my fellow lifetime honorary member of this estimable Forum is that as so often is the case it is the story of Aesop’s Fables.  prof n are on the same page when it comes to a charter school in Memphis abusing corporal punishment. It is abuse and gives the anti-CP zealots a just cause that is rare indeed.  Parents may think they have the last say on how their children are taught but there are parameters that the state becomes involve even in Shelby County where corporal punishment is permissible. Her demonstration was a flop but IMHO ot is Aesop’s Fable.

Sadly there is nothing inauthentic about the paddle inappropriately referred to in their code of discipline as “Mr Wood” on page 11 Student Handbook  and wouldn’t be surprised if there is one called the Terminator.

When Paula starts naming names (Principal Tonya D Biles) and the wait until Friday (Chapel) public school corporal punishment it is sad.  Can you imagine waiting as some girls getting the strap on the hands or five swats for a week and when crying told and told man up or suck it up in front of 80 chuildren.  Why the girls are subject to the paddle as well as the strap is a mystery to me.

Background corpun 21102.

We can do it the way we want to do it says Curtis Weather about his Charter School in capstone public affairs.

Paula typical exaggerated accounts but the reaction of the public assembly sounds sadly true.

Reactions of the students viewing the spectacle range from pleasure to discomfort. This is the only time when outbursts of laughter and jeering are tolerated, if not encouraged. While some students are frankly entertained, others block their ears and stare at the floor.

http://www.mahsmiddleandhigh.com/pdf/St … ndbook.pdf

http://www.capstonepublicaffairs.com/blog/?p=126

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/sh … p=13488290

Hi American Way,

Memphis is another world , not to say another century. I also wonder where the police were taught their  delightful technique for suppressing complaints  …..retired members of the Birmingham Alabama homicide squad  squad by any chance? What they have their is a ritual of degradation and humiliation, designed to what purpose ? Yes , in the long ago, there were occasional public beatings in British Public schools ( although in my day I never saw one). they were a function of time and place and only happened in extremis .

A queue waiting for ten strokes of the strap for  in public , for some trivial offense , is in a different league entirely, and certainly in my mind equates to deliberately sanctioned child abuse.Honor code? Where is the Honor of the administration? And the city Fathers.

Were this a private school, at least one might say well parents make an informed choice, but the horribly muddled thinking that equates with the charter program in many countries, forgets that basically the State does take responsibility for the save and effective education of these kids.

Its racial mix makes this school even more worrying.I know it may stick in the throat , but id the south wants to keep moderate useful c.p. it will have to stand up to this as strongly as Paula. We allowed places like Bacon’s to carry on merrily, and no-one saw the writing on the wall………

I would advise Paula to contact their governing board.  I do not believe there is a place for a single race school and this may account for its waiting list. Even traditionally black colleges are a thing of the past.  The faculty and administration are all very well qualified but and their student body may be better served than the integrated public schools but they are not well served by the manner that they are allegedly administering corporal punishment.  Maybe for the sake of modesty the man straps the girls hands and the female principal paddles their bottoms.

I know TWP antipathy toward Paula and their suspicion of her claims may keep the from believing it but this may be the kind of thing that will make paddling a thing of the past. I think instead it might be a better idea to contact the governing board. 100 Black Men of Memphis is their sponsoring agency.  Paula may have cried wolf once too often.  You might want to give TWP your opinion on their Memphis Meltdown post.

Just to get a taste of a single race school with Tonya D Biles directing the music and the one who allegedly paddles the girls in a group of 80 or so boys and girls every Friday at “Chapel”.  They must be singing a different note at chapel on Fridays.  Talk about a wait between sentence and exceution up to a week to dread what’s coming.Curtis Weathers (an intimidating size star athlete for seven years of the football Cleveland Browns)is extending the middle school to a high school by populat demand because the kids want to continue there. Curtis Weathers supposedly straps the girls ten times on the hands and paddles the boys.

I’m from the UK but it’s frequently observed that black families often send their children back to their countries of origin to be educated, if they can afford it – Jamaica, Ghana, etc – where they will get a traditional education at a fraction of the cost of a UK private school and where the sort of behaviour prevalent in British schools especially in poorer areas where most black families live, would not be tolerated.

Yes this means lots of (overseas) corporal punishment but a lot of the people who complain most about school CP are white middle-class parents who would never send their children to the kind of poor-performing school which is the norm for so many black kids.

I’m nor sure you can hide abuse of CP in American schools, there’s too much awareness of legal challenges but IF these kids are turning out balanced and successful members of society I think most Memphis parents would be delighted despite the whackings – if the school can provide an environment free of drugs, gangs and criminal behaviour I believe most kids would feel secure and look on CP as an occupational hazard of misbehaviour.

when you said mrs mann pulled the hem of your short trousers and give them a extra hard tug to expose the lower part of the bottom I assume your underwear rode up with the shorts and did she ever do it so the whole cheek of the bottom was fully exposed and did she do this one side only or on both in a sense then it would like been given a wedgie

Clothing adjustments.

Make the boys strip off their jackets, and loose the trousers’ band, preparatory to hoisting them upon a boy’s back, so as to get his whipping, with only the linen between the flesh and the strap. The girls too, —- we pity them! were obliged to take off their stays to receive their floggings with equal sensibility.

Annals of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, in the … v.1.Watson, John F. (John Fanning), 1779-1860.

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Warning:  Links from this post may depict partial nudity!]</span> </span>
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Earnest seekers after the truth about clothing adjustment during SCP will have been greatly enthused by <b>American Way</b>’s above links which indicate that in 1812 Philadelphia if boys and girls were schooled together girls were obliged to remove their stays to receive their floggings with sensibility equal to their male schoolmates.
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I have always sought to support and encourage our earnest seekers after the truth, who often have difficulty in finding and verifying information about the subject which they study so assiduously.  I have therefore done a little research on what may have been the situation in 1812 Philadelphia.
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The description of the punishment of boys says that they were required to remove their jacket and loosen the band of their trousers before being hoisted on another boy’s back to be whipped:
<br><br><div style=”padding-left:40px;padding-right:40px;color:#0000ff;”>with only the linen between the flesh and the strap</div>
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It seems not unreasonable to assume that once hoisted (see the illustration from 1839 <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … 9_-_BL.jpg” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>here</b></font></a></span> </span> if unfamiliar with ‘hoisting’) the boy’s trousers were pulled down and he was beaten on his bottom, protected only by his ‘linen’ which I believe would indicate underpants of some sort.  An embarrassment for a young man in a mixed class, which the account linked by <b>American Way</b> seems to imply was the situation.
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But what of girls?  Were they also hoisted after removing their stays?  Surely not!  And why was it necessary for them to remove their stays (corsets I think, in more modern usage) anyway?  If they were also to be beaten on the bottom with “<i>equal sensibility</i>” (which in the context could I suppose imply both amount of protection and degree of embarrassment) would it not merely be necessary to have them bend over a desk or table, lift back skirts and petticoats and, no doubt much to the delight of male classmates, whack them over their, ahem, ‘linen’?  Surely the ‘stays’ would not impede the target area?
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Not so apparently.  In the early 1800s for a period ‘long line’ stays (or corsets) were fashionable.  The illustration <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/c … 5.93_F.jpg” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>here</b></font></a></span> </span> shows such a garment^{<span style=”color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;”>1</span>} and it appears that it would indeed protect at least part of the target area if punishment was on the bottom.
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However for the young lady to remove her stays would clearly involve the infliction of rather more elaborate and embarrassing disrobing than was involved for a boy to have his trousers briefly lowered.  One hopes that if required it was in private attended only by a lady teacher to administer punishment! A scene akin to <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://68.media.tumblr.com/0d4c4691e112 … o7_500.jpg” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>this</b></font></a></span> </span> perhaps, though minus the intruding male who seems to have ‘accidentally’ come upon the punishment shown. <img src=’http://www.network54.com/images/happy.gif‘ /><br><br><b>American Way</b>’s links indicate that the book author’s informant, at school in Philadelphia in around 1812:
<br><br><div style=”padding-left:40px;padding-right:40px;color:#0000ff;”>named one distinguished lady, since, who was so treated, among others, in his school</div>
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In the light of the ‘distinguished lady’ bit I am tempted to wonder if the stays removal story was merely the product of fevered schoolboy speculation as to what befell the occasional female pupil escorted out of the classroom by an angry teacher after some serious infraction.  Very much like the more recent speculation apparently rife in some English mixed schools where it was a closely guarded secret, closely guarded by none more so than by the girls themselves, as to whether girls were caned at all, and if so on the hands or bottom.  I recall various reports here where such seems to have been the case! <img src=’http://www.network54.com/images/happy.gif‘ /><br><br>
Be that as it may, the book states of the school where boys had their trousers pulled down and girls had to remove their stays to be whacked – possibly, that:
<br><br><div style=”padding-left:40px;padding-right:40px;color:#0000ff;”>All the teachers then were from England or Ireland, and brought with them the rigorous principles, which had before been whipped into themselves at home.</div>
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Ah, le vice anglais again I presume! <img src=’http://www.network54.com/images/happy.gif‘ /><br><br>
And now for something completely different.  With the revival of this thread I am distressed to note that the picture displayed in this page by my very greatly esteemed fellow contributor <b>American Way</b> on December 2 2009, 12:12 AM is no longer to be found at the URL he used.  I cannot be sure exactly which picture it was so I will not restore display in the page.  However for the benefit of anyone who may wonder what picture it was I can say with some certainty from the source of his post that it was one of the first few pictures found by searching Google Images for the following string:
<br><br><b>”Activists of FEMEN, a Ukrainian women movement defending women’s conditions in the society”</b>
<br><br>^{<span style=”color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;”>1</span>}<span style=”font-family:’Times New Roman’, Times, Serif;font-weight:200;font-size:90%;color:#0000ff;”>The page <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://4thusreenactors.blogspot.com/201 … rsets.html” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>here</b></font></a></span> </span> has considerable detail on 19th century corsets (stays) in the US, and includes the picture I have linked, together with its description.  I had contact at 2nd hand with some US historical re-enactors when I did some work on a website – not this one.  Those people are fanatical!  Every detail has to be historically accurate.  I recall that our former contributor Renee <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.network54.com/Forum/198833/m … 1380232093” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>participated</b></font></a></span> </span> in a re-enaction as part of a ‘medical’ team.  A great pity Renee and the ladies of TWP are no longer with us.  I’ll bet there would have been some animated discussion of stays removal for the purpose of SCP! <img src=’http://www.network54.com/images/happy.gif‘ /></span></div>  [/dohtml]

I am personally appalled at Femen’s further protest stripping, nonetheless I but will not strip them from the Pantheon of those who have been honore for having the Courage to Submit.  I am not Bucky Beaver.  I have a profound overbite.  My teeth are for the visually impaired.  For those with exceptional vision I would be appreciative a translation of what is printed upon her knickers.

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<div style=”width:100%;background-image:url(“/realm/A_L_123/A_L_trg.gif”);”>Hello American Way,

I fear you may be disappointed.  The image linked simply does not have the required level of detail.  At 1024×696 pixels and around 430,000 bytes it is much smaller than the original straight from the camera image would have been.  Alas I cannot now find a better image on the web, though I am fairly confident that when you first linked that series of protest pictures more detailed versions were available.

The current image bears the Getty Images logo and doubtless it is possible to purchase a superior copy which would yield the required detail should anyone wish to assist! </div>

How mortifying!

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[

Hello <b>American Way</b>,
<br><br>
Ah, but did she have to remove her stays? <img src=’http://www.network54.com/images/happy.gif‘ />  Probably not, as the illustration by G Smit (an alias of  Georges Töpfer) is said to represent a punishment in an English school in 1910 according to Wikimedia.  By 1910 I think stays had once again retreated clear of the apparent target area here.
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Mortifying?  Well possibly somewhat more so for the unfortunate girl than for the boy in the image <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.corpun.com/0images/schoolbirchxm.jpg” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>here</b></font></a></span> </span> linked from <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.corpun.com/books4.htm” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>this article</b></font></a></span> </span> on the excellent <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.corpun.com” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>Corpun.com</b></font></a></span> </span> site.  Though both punishments appear to be in a single sex environment it is usually assumed that the ‘delicate susceptibilities’ of girls exceed those of boys, and hence the distress might be greater.
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Alas though, as I observed in my comments  <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.network54.com/Forum/198833/m … +the+Birch” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>here</b></font></a></span> </span> on my alter ego Another_Lurker’s alleged encounter with that punitive instrument, the spray birch requires the baring of the bottom (or whatever other portion of the anatomy is the target).  And as regards mortification, had he actually been birched Another_Lurker would have been very mortified indeed, what with the headmistress wielding the birch and her two female assistants.  Not to mention the fact that his junior school was I understand a mixed school and he claims the headmistress left the door open! <img src=’http://www.network54.com/images/happy.gif‘ /></div>[/dohtml]

I think the horsing method described by an earlier poster is an excellent way of ensuring that the recipient’s backside is ready to receive the cane as the trousers are then skin tight.  For a good example of horsing see the 1970s Tom Brown’s School Days filmed by the BBC with Iain Cuthbertson as the flogging Dr Arnold.

Paula Meadows, as a top notch artist, gives us a better idea of how a young lady may be mortified under these circumstances.  An argument can be made that the recipient is not a pupil but a teacher.

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Hallo A_L

I`m not for one minute claiming to be an expert on these matters but when you ask why:

would it not merely be necessary to have them bend over a desk or table, lift back skirts and petticoats and, no doubt much to the delight of male classmates, whack them over their, ahem, ‘linen’? Surely the ‘stays’ would not impede the target area?

then suggest the length of stays may be the problem, I would like to offer another suggestion that the reason a girl wearing stays was not simply bent over is because the wearing of stays prevents that movement.

Now as said I`m no expert I have never worn stays made in the 1800s neither have I worn any that have been replicas of the type worn by schoolgirls in 1812. It possible stays made at that period were a lot less rigid than anything I have ever worn, and those worn by school girls may have designed to be less restrictive. Of course ladies were expected to wear stays everyday and from an early age so, unlike myself, would be much more accustomed  to wearing them and perhaps had more flexibility.  I have my doubts however, stays are supposed to hold the torso upright and rigid, I would have though good posture was considered important for schoolgirls in the early 1800`s so their stays would have ensured they maintained the correct upright position.

It is not entirely impossible to bend over while wearing stays or a corset, but it certainly is not easy to bend and hold that position while still being able to breathe!

IMHO the girl’s  back would be bared but her buttocks would be spared.  Paula Flowe would be pleased.    It would be unfair to the boys that girls would not be punished on her bare skin.  What would that TWP gang say?  

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Corsets vs Stays.

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Outlander’s corsets.

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Who could forget the prior posted spanking scene?

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Corset and stays sale fitted in the privacy of your own home for no extra expense.

Gazette of the United States and Daily Evening Advertiser. (Philadelphia)  May 16, 1795

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Never should a day go by without learning something from  the estimable Forum.

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Hello jd 19,

And thank you for your most helpful explanation of why bending over in stays was probably not an option for US schoolgirls in 1812 whatever may have been the length of said postural reinforcement devices.  I confess that prior to the mention of the subject in this thread my entire knowledge about stays (or indeed corsets) could have been written with a very worn felt tip marker pen on the back of a very small (sort of UK definitive issue size) stamp.

In researching my April 25 2017, 2:43 AM contribution above I found that in the period in question girls were indeed expected to wear stays from an early age and that around the date in question, 1812, for a period stays were longer and extended substantially further down the torso than was the case either before or after that time.  This led me to assume that the extended length of stays covering part of the bottom and inhibiting the administration of SCP to that portion of the anatomy was the reason why simply bending the girl over to be whacked was not the expedient adopted.  As I now realise following your contribution, bending over would have been fraught with difficulty in any length of stays.

This of course begs the question of what actually befell unfortunate young ladies who required corporal correction in mixed classes in 1812 Philadelphia.  The information we have from the item originally linked by American Way on April 24 2017, 3:34 PM above is that:

• Boys had to  strip off their jackets, and loose the trousers’ band before being hoisted on another boy’s back for the administration of the punishment.</li>
• The punitive instrument used was a strap.</li>
• The hoisted boy was beaten with only his linen (underpants?) between flesh and strap, so we may reasonably conclude that his loosened trousers were pulled down after hoisting and that the target of the strap was the buttocks.</li>
• Girls were obliged to take off their stays to receive their floggings.</li>
• Girls were punished with ‘equal sensibility’ to the boys.</li>

Whatever ‘equal sensibility’ may imply personally I doubt very strongly that in 1812 girls were required to disrobe sufficiently to remove their stays in a mixed class, or that they were ‘hoisted’ for punishment.  If the stays came off then I think the punishment was most certainly in private and by a female!  American Way suggests above that girls were beaten on the back.  Very unlikely indeed I think, whatever the punitive implement, and certainly not with a strap.</div>

The only adjustments I can say happened at our school was the pulling back of the dress edge and holding it in place. Mr. Anderson was a creature of habit and rarely strayed from his method.  Feet together, bend over the chair and look down or forward, and do not create a bunch of commotion.

Emily

The only clothing adjustments at my secondary school were lifting the blazer up out of the way of the target area, never heard of anyone being asked to remove their blazer first.

CP was abolished in South African schools some time ago but when it was commonplace, girls as well as boys were regularly punished in this way.

Canings were normally given on the hand in girls’ schools but it was not uncommon for girls to be caned on the bottom. I’m told that skirts were normally not raised but that girls were asked to pull their skirts tight across their backsides and made to lean forward rather that bend over.

A female student I knew at my old university said when girls were caned at her former all girls school it was always across the back of the upper legs rather than on the hand. It was felt caning a girl on her hand may impede her with certain practical subjects such as playing a musical instrument. The cane was administered on bare legs so in addition to raising their skirts to receive the cane girls who wore nylons (usually the older ones) had to remove them and hand them over to the senior teacher giving the cane. After receiving the cane the girl was given a pair of socks to change into and not allowed to wear nylons for the following two days, by which time the cane marks had usually faded. No doubt older girls felt ashamed returning home in socks with marks on their legs.

N.B.  The clothing adjustment.

CLICK

Buddhist angelic.

CLICK

CLICK

[Hello American Way

A most interesting video in the first link in your June 21 2017, 12:56 PM contribution above.  The ‘clothing adjustments’ actually appear superfluous.  The tops worn by the boy and the girls do not extend over the area on which they are caned and requiring them to be rearranged during the punishment makes no difference to the potential effect thereof.  The tactic is however often seen in these Thai videos so perhaps it was used by real teachers to add  a little more stress and embarrassment to the in front of the class punishment experience.  Possibly though you were in fact referring to the other ‘clothing adjustment’, the one not dictated by the teacher.
<br><br>
A notable feature of the video was that whereas the boy was caned on the lower buttocks the girls were apparently caned through their skirts on the back of the thighs.  I don’t think I’ve noted that before.  In Thai videos the normal target for both boys and girls in standing  posture canings seems to be the lower buttocks.
<br><br>
The video is of course not of real classroom canings, which are anyway supposed to be illegal in most if not all Thai schools now.  Rather it is an example of a Thai tribute to teachers (especially lady teachers) video genre with the theme ‘although they sometimes whack us we really love ’em dearly’.  YouTube is absolutely inundated with these productions.  Indeed anyone carrying out a superficial survey and not examining  the situation carefully might well conclude that for someone desirous of being whacked by a lady teacher all that is necessary is to enrol in a Thai school!
<br><br>
This completely erroneous conclusion is happily anyway likely to be of little general interest.   However my alter ego Another_Lurker, who is well known to harbour regrets that he was never caned at school, or rather that he wasn’t caned by a lady teacher, fell for it hook line and sinker.  Having earlier posted some frame grabs from an example of a Thai ‘we love lady teachers’ video <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.network54.com/Forum/198833/m … 1365831525” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>here</b></font></a></span> </span> at your request he eventually gave vent to his pathetic yearnings in <span style=”background-color:#ffe766;font-size:110%;”> <span style=”font-size:105%;”><a href=”http://www.network54.com/Forum/198833/m … ough+Woman” rel=”nofollow”><font color=”#FF0000″><b>this</b></font></a></span> </span> post, pretending that it was only a joke. Ha ha!
<br><br>
But even Another_Lurker has now seen the light with regard to these Thai videos.  He tells me that he found more than a dozen imitations of the video from which you requested the frame grabs on YouTube.  He claims that he meant to post on the phenomenon but lost the list of URLs.  Typical of the carelessness which characterises his approach to posting here!</div>[/dohtml]

There would be no need for lifting skirts in the USA for transgressors of codes of conduct promulgated in student handbooks.

https://www.dolcincontri.com/blog/wp-co … J3ZRdE.jpg

It is understandable why these girls would prefer to be spanked in jeans.  

https://www.oaoa.com/sports/article_067 … age&photo=

Odessa young ladies are subject to the paddle when needed. 

Page 4.  Corporal punishment—spanking or paddling the student—may be used as a discipline management technique in accordance with the Student Code of Conduct and policy FO(LOCAL) in the district’s policy manual.

https://www.ectorcountyisd.org/cms/lib0 … 6%2015.pdf

Midland students are spared that indignity.

https://www.mrt.com/news/education/arti … 354997.php

Hello American Way,

Just occasionally, for instance when somebody younger and bolder than me takes a chance I’ve baulked at and gains a couple of vehicles advantage on our ludicrously overcrowded roads, I think ‘it would be great to be young again’!  But then I encounter something like your above video, and I think ‘oh no it wouldn’t’!