https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/schoolcorporalpunishment/punishment-or-correction-t4294.html
It has been several months since I have been active here. Besides the Covid-19 mess that has kept this almost 81 year old woman secluded from many of my friends, I did get tp visit a lot of old remaining ones from December through February. I do have some things to discuss after my road trip.
One of the persons I visited was a friend who is 3 years younger then me and lives in East Alabama chich is not too far from where we grew up in the far west part of the Florida panhandle. She lives with her one of her granddaughters and great granddaughters. The great granddaughter is 15 and will be a senior this year. She skipped 2nd and 5th grades due to her being a little higher IQ than most (128).
I was talking to my friend Suzie (names changed as I do not want to invade their privacy), and we were discussing our school days as well as the following generations and how each group is better or worse in various areas. We both remembered the ruckus caused when schools here in the Florida panhandle were desegregated in the late 1960s and what a tormented decade that was. We also talked about how different each generation was due to new technologies as well as new morals that came into play, i.e. shacking up and promiscuity.
At some point school CP came up and I mentioned that many states and schools no longer use it when her 37 year old granddaughter blurted “Well that may be true in some places, but here it’s not only used, it’s done more now than when I was in school. She then called her 15 year old daughter Megan to come into the room. After she came in her mom asked “How often do you get paddled at school?” She stated is was about once a month which shocked me a bit. Her mom then jumped in and said “But it is voluntary. You can choose other punishments if you do not want swats.”
I then turned to Megan and asked what did she do to get in so much trouble. She replied that sometimes it was for bad words, but mostly due to being late to classes. She stated that she is late to one class or another due to “the effects of being a girl” where she has to keep up with her make-up and hair and often loses track of time. She said you can get 2 to 5 swats, but three is the most common unless you “advance.”
When I asked what did “advance” mean she said “Well, when you get a demerit for being late it is put on your attendance card. When you get 5, you can do Saturday school or take 3 swats.” Then the next time you get 5 demerits it’s the same choice, but on the 3rd and 4th times, you get 4 swats. Then after that it’s 5 until the school year is over. She said that in 9th grade she got 24 swats, two sets each of the 3 , 4 and 5.
Then in the 10th grade she got 34 over the course of the year and said she was on track to beat that this current school year as she had received 34 by the time schools shut down in mid March. When I asked if the swats hurt and why they are not correcting the behavior, I was shocked at her answer. She said almost in a scientific discussion mode “It’s not for correction, it’s a punishment.” She continued “It does sting a lot for about an hour, but that’s way better than 4 hours of your Saturday being consumed by cleaning the school and straightening things out.
She told me that the principal, a male, doles out the swats and a female administrator will serve as a sonic witness. When I asked what a “sonic witness” is, she said the lady sits at desk in front of the wall to the principals office and can hear it, but not actually see unless she stands up and stands in the door which she rarely does. She said when she get’s a note to come to the office after earning a 5th demerit, she goes to the office and they give her a choice of punishments. She always chooses the swats and she comes to the office during the last period on Friday and receives them. She is told to remove anything in the back pockets, if she has them, and then is told to bend over a chair and place her hands on the edge of the seat. She is told to look at the wall straight ahead and look at a printout of the logo for the Target stores and then its wham wham wham.
Her mom then tells me that once you get the swats the “sin” that earned you the swats is forgiven and deleted from the records. That is very strange to me.
So is punishment just a payment system and as long as you keep up the payments, your credit (school record) is in good standing?
kevinont, Another_Lurker like this post
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Another_Lurker10K256
It is very good indeed to have you back. A most excellent and interesting post. You are an example to us all!
There is a great deal in your account that I find both fascinating and alien. The fact that Megan, clearly highly intelligent to the point where she was jumping grades, was not unduly unhappy to get 30+ swats a year at age 15. I’m around 3 years younger than you. When I was Megan’s age here in England girls certainly did get caned or slippered on occasion. But I doubt very much if many of them accrued 30+ strokes and the six or more instances of SCP per year that Megan was reporting to you.
Further if any did they would probably have been deeply ashamed of the matter and not simply dismissed it as “It’s not for correction, it’s a punishment”. In other words, nothing seriously amiss here, it’s just that if you do certain things you get whacked. A bit like a library fine if you keep books out too long. The fine isn’t going to deter you from missing the date next time, it just marks the fact that you did miss the date that time.
But Megan is not alone in the US. There has been much discussion in the thread here recently of students who are paddled frequently, often on several successive days, rather than serve lunch time detentions. They clearly don’t regard it as a correction either, or presumably they wouldn’t keep doing it. It is an administrative device. There has to be a tick in the records somewhere that says a student did this, being tardy to class for instance, so this happened.
If the student doesn’t want to get that tick by serving a detention, or Saturday school in Megan’s case, the school says well no problem, you can get this number of swats instead and get your tick that way. We’re not in the least bit concerned about you being tardy (or whatever the ‘crime’ was) we just need to balance the books. And what’s more, once the credits on a particular infraction match the debits, why, we can delete that infraction from the books anyway and it’s gone and forgotten. Do the same thing as often as you like, provided you’re prepared to get that tick some way.
The administration sees it that way, the students see it that way, and everyone’s happy. I have to say though that I admire the fortitude of modern young women in being willing to put up with the indignity of being whacked, often by a male administrator, and a stinging bottom for up to an hour as Megan reported, just for the sake of their social time. But then social time is so very important to modern youngsters. Everyone needs to spend as much time as possible with everyone else so that they can all monitor each other and be exactly like each other.
Now I don’t know about Megan’s school, but certainly at most US schools not all ‘crimes’ are dealt with by the tick system. Some things will get you ISS, ESS, transfer to special school or even into the justice system faster than you can say ‘Gotcha’! There’s no doubt at all about the corrective element. It’s right there alongside the punishment bit and it’s in your face. The message is very clear indeed. Do this again and very nasty things will happen, and they’ll keep getting nastier and nastier. Your only sensible action is correction, i.e. stop doing it!
However for things like tardies it is just as though the administration in schools has decided that it’s a lost cause. They assume that they can’t stop students doing it but they can’t just ignore it, so they resort to book-keeping, debit and credit, and the tick system. They could make being tardy as dangerous and damaging for students as bringing drugs to school, and if they did very few students would ever be tardy. But they don’t. Instead they waste lots of administrative time operating a tick system the outcome of which is that lots of students get lots of whacks.
Whatever way you look at it, it cannot possibly be a good thing that girls (or indeed boys for that matter) of 16, 17 and up are beaten on the bottom on a routine basis (and quite often in the case of girls by an administrator of the opposite sex) rather than punished in a way which might stop them doing whatever it is that gets them whacked. A medical institute in Siberia did allegedly claim a few years ago that being beaten on the bottom by a person of the opposite sex was good for serious depression, but they did specify bare bottoms and serious beatings. And anyway how many students are seriously depressed?
Megan’s ‘sonic’ witness is a great description! But if you’re operating tick system paddlings who really needs a witness anyway. It’s totally routine and predictable. And the sonic witness method does at least salvage a bit of that wasted administrative time.
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WWT
Welcome home!
It’s good to have you back with us – please keep posting.
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Oliver_Sydney89948
Thank you very much for the detailed re-telling of your friend’s great granddaughter’s punishments. I do agree with Another Lurker that she, like many of her contemporaries, is incredibly forthcoming. I guess one big difference between then and now was that in most cases parents did not know of punishments.
I think that her statement “It’s not for correction, it’s a punishment” would have captured the attitude of many boys at my school very well, It is not dissimilar from former contributor Jenny’s description of punishments as a “toll”.
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CathyG22730
1. Well Megan you went shopping again and now it’s time to bend over and make the payment (referring to the Target logo on the wall.)
2. Don’t move, stick your bottom out, here we go here comes the bees.
She also said on some occasions she forgot it was Friday and wore athletic shorts or leggings and those stung more.
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stujos21920
It has always fascinated me how much store schools, especially in US, put on tardiness. I think it was Oscar Wilde (it usually was) who was once quoted as saying “punctuality is the thief of time.” I do tend to agree, time governs our life.
It sounds that in Megan’s school, swats are almost treated as a game. The question of whether a spanking is punishment or correction has long been considered. Ideally, it is both. Unless it goes at least some way towards improving future behaviour, it seems a waste of time. Maybe if her teachers refused to paddle her, but doled out other punishments, it would have more of an effect and may improve her behaviour. The principal comparing it paying for a shopping trip is bizarre. What he’s saying is a bag of apples will always cost the same, however often you buy them. Being late will get you the same number of swats, however often it occurs.
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Another_Lurker10K256
Sorry to be ignorant, but could you possibly explain what the target stores logo is please and why it is on the wall in the Principal’s office? As featured by her Principal in telling young Megan where to direct her gaze during the assumption of his required punitive posture.
You say that Megan said some of the statements made by her Principal during a paddling were funny. I hope she meant funny as in questionable and inappropriate, not funny as in humorous. I am in full agreement with stujos about the shopping trip reference. Bizarre is exactly the word for it. In addition it confirms the debit/credit box ticking nature of the punishment.
As regards the:
Don’t move, stick your bottom out, here we go here comes the bees.
In my opinion that is a totally inappropriate and undesirable thing for a mature male in a position of authority to say to a 15 year old girl during a school punishment. It’s not supposed to be a friendly, ok here we go again routine matter between friends, it is supposed to be retribution for an infraction. It should be very formal and impersonal. The selected and imposed punitive posture should ensure that the bottom is properly positioned for the paddle without anatomical references. Both parties should know and assume it is going to sting/hurt without references to bees. A curt reminder to remain in position until told to stand up may be appropriate, but that’s about it.
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Oliver_Sydney89948
With respect to this discussion I would point out that in all (or nearly all cases) there was significant jocularity from the observers, although not from the paddler or the recipient. Clearly they are atypical in that they are all public paddlings (or maybe reality does not correspond with the rules in many schools?). I found the atmosphere in these somewhat surprising, but very much in tune with the attitudes portrayed in this thread.
As others would guess this is very different from the schools I attended. Although most of the canings and spankings were public or semi-public, jocularity by the observers would have been very unwise as they may well have become recipients. There was one exception which was the closest to a paddling that I witnessed. A boy (aged 12) was bent over and struck once quite hard with a large T square in a woodwork class – against the NSW Education Dept rules but nobody bothered much with rules for CP in the 1960s. Most of the class laughed – the boy and the teacher half joined in.
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2015holyfamilypenguin4,32069
The familiarity is an extension of the family like trust extended into the school. A father of a student that was a principal applied the paddle on one of her schoolmates.
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CathyG22730
Another_Lurker wrote: ↑May 28, 2020Don’t move, stick your bottom out, here we go here comes the bees.
In my opinion that is a totally inappropriate and undesirable thing for a mature male in a position of authority to say to a 15 year old girl during a school punishment. It’s not supposed to be a friendly, ok here we go again routine matter between friends, it is supposed to be retribution for an infraction. It should be very formal and impersonal. The selected and imposed punitive posture should ensure that the bottom is properly positioned for the paddle without anatomical references. Both parties should know and assume it is going to sting/hurt without references to bees. A curt reminder to remain in position until told to stand up may be appropriate, but that’s about it.
I agree that this is inappropriate thing to say, but I have to wonder how much of that jocularity is due to Megans strange way of seeing things. For those of you who have watched the 1960’s American sit com, Gilligans Island, talking to Megan is like having a discussion with the professor.
Examples:
When I asked her if she thought it was ok for a mature male to whack her with a paddle. She answered , “Well first of all, the paddling is optional and I opted for it. I definitely would not want one of my peers to administer the swats as that would be really offensive to my psyche. Getting swats is just a piece of flat hard wood being struck against the buttocks to induce discomfort for a short period as an atonement for ones mistakes.”
What if the principal likes swatting young ladies? “Not a big issue. I am not in an enclosed room with him alone and as previously stated, I opted for this punishment. If the principal is heterosexual then I can assume that he could find it attractive. If he is gay, then he might find swatting the boys attractive. As long as he controls his impulses, there is no conflict of interest.”
Do you cry when you get it? “No, of course not. Just exhale after each one.”
Does getting 5 hurt a lot more than 3? “Not much. Your behind stings the most after two and not much change after that.”
Your dad uses a paddles as well? “Yes mam, he does.”
How many do you get from him? “When I get it, I get 5 to 12.”
That must really hurt. “Well yeah, that is the intent.”
Your mom said he has something written on his paddle, what does it say? “When the Lord is pleased, he warms your heart, when the Lord is angered, he warms your bottom”
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dmp19111
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Another_Lurker10K256
Many of those in the Southern USA who take the biblical texts regarding the beating of children literally also believe that the biblical rod was actually a paddle.
CathyG likes this post
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dmp19111
CathyG likes this post
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2015holyfamilypenguin4,32069
Oxford Yellowjackets. 10% of a student body of 1,200 students. With 600 girls to choose from they can have a larger. You need a big cheerleader to be a supporting pillar when the do their pyramids and a petite one for the top.
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Another_Lurker10K256
Thank goodness you are back! I had feared you might have fallen victim to access problems even worse than those afflicting me!
What a set of splendidly normal young ladies in your cheerleader picture! They have covered all the bases. They have members adept at supporting the bottom of the pyramid. They have members adept at balancing high up on the apex of the pyramid. And they have members who if you don’t cheer loudly enough pick you up and throw you out through the roof of the stadium! 
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2015holyfamilypenguin4,32069
If the anti-SCP fanatics think they’re going to stop the spankings at Oxford they better think again. They paddled the dress code violators in 2009. They have an answer to these zealots. Hit Never Quit that gives little comfort to any of the young ladies that think they’re above the law. Look to the left hand side of the the picture of the cheerleaders as shown in their picture.
How did find out the school was Oxford? I may be wrong but by a reasonable surmise I inferred by the fact there are three target stores in Alabama with one of them being in Oxford, but the stinging bee reference made it more likely. I am sharing this as a preemptive because if you search, “pounce,” you too can make a reasonable surmise.
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CathyG22730
dmp wrote: ↑May 30, 2020“When the Lord is pleased, he warms your heart, when the Lord is angered, he warms your bottom” that is profoundly creepy, and offensively religious for a public school without being the least bit biblical.
Pardon me for not enough clarification. The paddle with the phrase is her dad’s paddle, not the schools.
Another_Lurker wrote: ↑May 28, 2020Hello CathyG,
Sorry to be ignorant, but could you possibly explain what the target stores logo is please and why it is on the wall in the Principal’s office? As featured by her Principal in telling young Megan where to direct her gaze during the assumption of his required punitive posture.
Another_Lurker wrote: ↑May 30, 2020Hello dane,
Many of those in the Southern USA who take the biblical texts regarding the beating of children literally also believe that the biblical rod was actually a paddle.
Very true. Back in my early days I recalled seeing a few church pamphlets discussing the raising of Godly children and seeing a couple showing Jesus wielding a paddle.
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CathyG22730
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Another_Lurker10K256
Thank you for the clarification re the Target Stores logo. I’m not clear why the Principal would have the logo of a store on his office wall, unless perhaps the store provides materials or assistance to the school, as sometimes happens over here.
I recall another post about paddling here where girls being paddled were told to look into the eye of the tiger when they were bent over for swats. I never did ask, but presumed in that case that there was a picture of a tiger on the wall. I believe some wielders of the paddle believe it important that the recipient doesn’t glance round and see the incoming stroke, so have something to which they can specifically direct vision during punishment.
I note your comment that Megan is one of about 20 girls who regularly get swats from the Principal for their shortcomings. I sense that you will probably agree with me that it is a ridiculous situation when certain girls are paddled so often that the atmosphere during ‘punishment’ is so relaxed as to be almost jovial.
It certainly isn’t doing the girls any good, as they keep repeating the offences and returning for more. Whether it is doing them any harm I am not qualified to judge, but even if it isn’t I am deeply suspicious of the motives of Principals who allow the practice to continue without questioning it and saying to the ISD committee or whoever makes the rules, “hey, this isn’t working, we need to try something else”.
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CathyG22730
Another_Lurker wrote: ↑May 31, 2020Hello CathyG,
Thank you for the clarification re the Target Stores logo. I’m not clear why the Principal would have the logo of a store on his office wall, unless perhaps the store provides materials or assistance to the school, as sometimes happens over here.
I recall another post about paddling here where girls being paddled were told to look into the eye of the tiger when they were bent over for swats. I never did ask, but presumed in that case that there was a picture of a tiger on the wall. I believe some wielders of the paddle believe it important that the recipient doesn’t glance round and see the incoming stroke, so have something to which they can specifically direct vision during punishment.
I note your comment that Megan is one of about 20 girls who regularly get swats from the Principal for their shortcomings. I sense that you will probably agree with me that it is a ridiculous situation when certain girls are paddled so often that the atmosphere during ‘punishment’ is so relaxed as to be almost jovial.
It certainly isn’t doing the girls any good, as they keep repeating the offences and returning for more. Whether it is doing them any harm I am not qualified to judge, but even if it isn’t I am deeply suspicious of the motives of Principals who allow the practice to continue without questioning it and saying to the ISD committee or whoever makes the rules, “hey, this isn’t working, we need to try something else”.
I am in agreement that the paddlings are correcting any behaviors, but as mentioned earlier, everyone seems to be aware of this arrangement and is ok with it. “It’s not correction, it’s a punishment” What I find surprising is she’s quite intelligent, but seems to accept this type or punishment without any question.
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2015holyfamilypenguin4,32069
It’s a jungle out there. I will leave it to the school administration how best they achieve compliance to the code conduct. What ever safe and effective means to lead to conducive atmosphere for learning is their call. Adolescence is a time when some form of taming is required as is with all mammals. They just don’t hand out Oxford diplomas.
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CathyG22730
2015holyfamilypenguin wrote: ↑Jun 01, 2020I don’t know what young ladies are like among her friends but with 120 students (10% student body) being paddled a vast majority would be young men. There is less a gender discrepancy between spanking and suspensions. That leads me to believe that they are better behaved or prefer spanking over suspension for they don’t want miss their cheerleading of extracurricular activities.
It’s a jungle out there. I will leave it to the school administration how best they achieve compliance to the code conduct. What ever safe and effective means to lead to conducive atmosphere for learning is their call. Adolescence is a time when some form of taming is required as is with all mammals. They just don’t hand out Oxford diplomas.
https://www.centerchristianacademy.org/ … 20Form.pdf
Megan said her backside has been leatherized since the 7th grade, LOL. Her worst school paddling was in 7th grade when she received 15 swats over 3 days for her and 4 friends for setting off multiple smoke bombs inside the school which tripped the fire alarm. She said she did not even think about that. She was not part of the plan at the beginning, but became part of it once they ready to be deployed. She was just a month past her 11th birthday. Her dad have her several as well. She said this was a turning point in choosing swats over ISS. She realized that while her backside was uncomfortable for a short spell, it was much more preferable than “jail time” also known as ISS.
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2015holyfamilypenguin4,32069
They paddle is almost used on 300 students or about a 1/3 more than suspended
https://projects.propublica.org/miseduc … 1761001515
The disparity is less between genders between swats and suspension. More males are spanked and suspended but the male to female ratio is significantly less for choosing suspension ergo they’re not that fond of being paddled.
A little under 1/3 of the young men and 1/5 of the young woman know by word of mouth the coach calibrates his swing.
Evelyn Ibarra wouldn’t be too keen the next time she would be asked to bend over by Chad Dunham. He looks like he would be more than up to his task.
https://www.newschannel10.com/story/373 … all-coach/
Frequent pilgrimage to atone for their shortcomings sounds like a group of Catholic high schools students waiting to receive absolution from the school chaplain. If he assigned them to say a hundred rosaries they might not be confessing their same sins over and over again.
He had an unenviable assignment.
Chad Dunham’s “reign of terror” was from 2013 to January 2018. Texans know a lot about taming cattle.
2013 – 2014
Students without disabilities who received corporal punishment: 354 (male: 225, female: 129)
2015 – 2016
Students without disabilities who received corporal punishment: 250 (male: 160, female: 90)
Females are more reticent to being spanked. Maybe they didn’t all have bums made of steel.
2013 – 2014
Students without disabilities receiving one or more in-school suspension: 186 (male: 111, female: 75)
2015 – 2016
Students without disabilities receiving one or more in-school suspension: 168 (male: 99, female: 69)
Massachusetts was the second state in the USA after a century since New Jersey banned it that prohibited corporal punishment just 50 years ago and then came the cascade.
Cathy were there many Catholics or mainstream Protestant that you encountered in school?
1887 Humorous take on school corporal punishment.
CathyG wrote: ↑May 30, 2020Another_Lurker wrote: ↑May 28, 2020Don’t move, stick your bottom out, here we go here comes the bees.
In my opinion that is a totally inappropriate and undesirable thing for a mature male in a position of authority to say to a 15 year old girl during a school punishment. It’s not supposed to be a friendly, ok here we go again routine matter between friends, it is supposed to be retribution for an infraction. It should be very formal and impersonal. The selected and imposed punitive posture should ensure that the bottom is properly positioned for the paddle without anatomical references. Both parties should know and assume it is going to sting/hurt without references to bees. A curt reminder to remain in position until told to stand up may be appropriate, but that’s about it.
I agree that this is inappropriate thing to say, but I have to wonder how much of that jocularity is due to Megans strange way of seeing things. For those of you who have watched the 1960’s American sit com, Gilligans Island, talking to Megan is like having a discussion with the professor.
Examples:
When I asked her if she thought it was ok for a mature male to whack her with a paddle. She answered , “Well first of all, the paddling is optional and I opted for it. I definitely would not want one of my peers to administer the swats as that would be really offensive to my psyche. Getting swats is just a piece of flat hard wood being struck against the buttocks to induce discomfort for a short period as an atonement for ones mistakes.”
What if the principal likes swatting young ladies? “Not a big issue. I am not in an enclosed room with him alone and as previously stated, I opted for this punishment. If the principal is heterosexual then I can assume that he could find it attractive. If he is gay, then he might find swatting the boys attractive. As long as he controls his impulses, there is no conflict of interest.”
Do you cry when you get it? “No, of course not. Just exhale after each one.”
Does getting 5 hurt a lot more than 3? “Not much. Your behind stings the most after two and not much change after that.”
Your dad uses a paddles as well? “Yes mam, he does.”
How many do you get from him? “When I get it, I get 5 to 12.”
That must really hurt. “Well yeah, that is the intent.”
Your mom said he has something written on his paddle, what does it say? “When the Lord is pleased, he warms your heart, when the Lord is angered, he warms your bottom”
is she a thin type of girl ?
when she gets the paddle at home does she get it on the bare ? same position as at school ? bent over a chair ?
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Another_Lurker10K256
After extensive analysis and clicking of those up pointing arrows in the quoted text I have concluded that your query relates to 15 year old Megan, daughter of my greatly esteemed fellow contributor CathyG‘s friend Suzie. I am sure that CathyG will be able to respond to your questions in due course.
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Emily1945515
when she gets the paddle at home does she get it on the bare ? Rarely. She gets it on her panties.
same position as at school ? bent over a chair ? Sometimes or bends over her bed.
Emily1945 wrote: ↑Jul 08, 2020is she a thin type of girl ? I would say normal. She is 5 feet 1 inch tall and weighs 110 (I had to call her mom to find out)
when she gets the paddle at home does she get it on the bare ? Rarely. She gets it on her panties.
same position as at school ? bent over a chair ? Sometimes or bends over her bed.
CathyG sent me an email to reply to this. She is unable to log on to Tapatalk for some reason.
Emily
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CathyG22730
Emily1945 wrote: ↑Jul 08, 2020is she a thin type of girl ? I would say normal. She is 5 feet 1 inch tall and weighs 110 (I had to call her mom to find out)
when she gets the paddle at home does she get it on the bare ? Rarely. She gets it on her panties.
same position as at school ? bent over a chair ? Sometimes or bends over her bed.
has she had other implements used on her as well ? such as the belt etc
when she gets paddled at school, does she get paddled at home for it ?
when she bent over a chair / bed, does she have to bend right over tight (face right down and bottom sticking up ?)
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CathyG22730
jack118118 wrote: ↑Jul 10, 2020Emily1945 wrote: ↑Jul 08, 2020is she a thin type of girl ? I would say normal. She is 5 feet 1 inch tall and weighs 110 (I had to call her mom to find out)
when she gets the paddle at home does she get it on the bare ? Rarely. She gets it on her panties.
same position as at school ? bent over a chair ? Sometimes or bends over her bed.
