St Mary’s School, Preston.

Late last year, I began corresponding with a lady who had attended the all girls, St Mary’s School, on St Mary’s Street in Preston, in the early 1980’s, and from my exchange of messages and emails with her, I learnt that corporal punishment was very much in use, even at that relatively late stage, in terms of its phasing out in U.K. schools.

As I was preparing to make this post, I searched for an up to date picture of the building, and saw that the building which the former school was housed in, was actually in the news earlier today, as there is now a proposal to convert the building into flats.

I’ll admit, I’m quite easily thrilled by little things, but imagine that…imagine owning a flat in a building you knew girls’ bottoms were regularly pumped (slippered) and caned in a few years ago. Well, don’t mind me, like I say, I’m easily thrilled by these small snippets of such historical information.

Here’s that news link for starters:
https://www.lep.co.uk/your-lancashire/p … -1-9595313

Here is the relevant extract from our original conversation, when it became clear that St Mary’s had been a school which used corporal punishment extensively on girls.

I have not corrected the text for mistakes, as I will leave other readers / contributors the opportunity to interpret the raw information as they see fit. Plus, I may have missed something in there that others with different eyes may spot.

For some reason, on Susan’s replies, a “?” frequently appears at the end of sentences. I assumed this was some kind of formatting issue, and again have not corrected it.

Readers may also detect a certain unrestrained exuberance on my part in my questioning, as I realised I’d struck scp gold

Remus
Did you get the cane or slipper at school Susan?…or any other type of spanking punishment?

susan
E mainly got the pump. . Only last year girls got the cane? I got it twice fighting and stealing teachers perfume pens?

susan
And a p.e . Teacher who used to draw a cross ? With chalk on our knickers depending on how many we got ? Till the cross vanished?

Remus
Ooh…I love hearing about actual accounts that happened! What happened when you got the pump. Did you get it from the Headmistress or Headmaster? Did you have to go the Head’s study?

Remus
Oohh this is great! Did you always get it on your knickers, or over sometimes over your skirt. What colour were your school knickers, and were the full bottom ones or briefer? Did you have to touch your toes or bend over something? I don’t have to ask if it stung your bottom, I know it would have! Did you cry, and what did the marks look like, could you see the pattern of the pump on your bum?

susan
It was a all girls school green ugly full knickers depended p.e. teacher would make us touch our toes. . And she would lift out gym skirts? Headmistress we had to bend over her desk arms out. .skirt lifted ..shame to say I did jump up and cry? My fighting mate took it better ..but only becouse she had more meat on her bottom lol

Remus
I just reread what you wrote earlier…Did you mean you got the cane twice or the pump twice?

susan
Yes I remember seeing the cane marks on our bottom …we went to the toilets? And rubed cold water on our hands to ease the stinging. ..we never fight again.

susan
I got the cane twice? The pump ? I lost track form teachers used the pump. Only the headmistress caned the girls for seriouse offences … fighting bullying stealing .e.t.c.

Remus
Oh this is great Susan! Your school knickers sound wonderful, I’m sure I eould have loved them!
So you got the cane on your hands and your bottoms from the Headmistress? At the same?

susan
No I got the cane twice on my bottom 5 months beetween?

Remus
Do you remember what the cane looked like and how many strokes of the cane you got each time?

Oh so you put water on your hands to put on your bottom, but no caning on your hands?

Remus
Do you remember how long the cane marks stayed on your bottom, and what they looked like. Were they just like red lines, or raised up weals?

Sorry for all the questions, I just find it fascinating learning details of real schoolgirl canings!

susan
Red lines for 4 days we got six each

Remus
You got six on both occasions, 5 months apart?

susan
Yes ouch

Remus
Did you jump up and cry after the very first stroke of the cane, or did you manage to take a few first? Did you put your hands back to rub your bottom?

Remus
When you bent over the Headmistress’s desk, did your knickers feel very tightly stretched across your bottom?

susan
Yes I stood up on every swING of the cane and rubed my bottom.

Remus
The Headmistress allowed you time to rub, or threatened to give you more strokes if you didn’t bend back over quickly? Did she space the strokes out over your bottom, or they were mostly in the same spot. Could you see six marks when you looked at your bum afterwards?

susan
She paced them thought I was soft. Yes I could see them in the mirror that night.

Remus
Did you go first, or was it your friend with the plumper bottom? Did you get to see each other caned? And was this the first time you got the cane, with your fighting friend. How about the other time, did you get caned just on your own then?

susan
Yes I saw her go first. … es second time all bye myself

Remus
Did she stand up and grab her bottom too, and then get to watch you get caned?
Do you remember what the cane looked like, was it long and thin, did it have a crooked handle?
I bet you were very nervous watching the cane whip down on her knickers, knowing you were next!
Did girls often get caned at your school?

susan
Yes it was long with a curve? She did better only stood up once to rub her bottom.

Remus
How about the second time you got the cane, for stealing the teacher’s perfume pens…Did you do better, or you still stood up and rubbed your bottom each time the cane caned down on your knickers? You must have thought after that first bottom caning you’d never do anything to get the cane again, and yet, here you were, bent over the Headmistress’s desk, with your skirt up, getting the cane on your knickers again Susan!

susan
Yes I stood up on every one lol

Remus
Did she cane you harder the second time you got the cane, or about the same? Was it the same cane, did she only have one?

susan
About the same yes she used the same cane

Remus
Did it feel like you had six hot burning marks on your bottom, or like your whole bottom was just on fire all over. Although, I imagine six strokes on your bottom would probably mostly cover it from top to bottom!

susan
It was on fire.

Remus
You mentioned only girls in their last year got the cane, so how old would you have been when you got the cane on your knickered bottom Susan?

susan
15 going sixteen. Who was the first ever women you spanked?

Remus
A girlfriend when I was about 18. I encouraged her over my knee and spanked her with my hand and a pump. I didn’t have much clue back then though, but she seemed to enjoy it!

Remus
I loved hearing about all the details of your schoolgirl canings, Susan. I wouldn’t mind writing a story based on them at some stage, if you didn’t mind. Do you remember the name of the other girl who got caned with you, and the name of the Headmistress?

susan
She would have I bet

Remus
What colour was your uniform skirts, blouses, tie, and did you wear knee sock?

susan
Navy blue skirt white top and a chequered cravet. Black stockings. .headmistress Mrs broadband. Other girl Karen

Remus
Thank you…Okay Susan, well you and Karen are going to get the cane again from Mrs Broadband in my story at some stage, and then you’re going to get it again on your own! Six strokes each time on your knickers Susan.

I may have to ask you some more details, as I think of them ! 

susan
Like tie me to a chair and interagate me.

susan
Broadbent
.dam predictive texts grrr

Remus
I thought it was probably Broadbent! Lol I’m not so much into bondage and tying up as I am spanking!

Remus
What did Mrs Broadbent look like? About how tall was she, and what kind of build, plump or slim…and how about Karen, a chubbier bottom than yours, but what other features did she have? I’m trying to picture the scene.

susan
Got a picture of my old school. In Preston

Remus
I keep thinking about you getting the cane from Mrs Broadbent. I wish I could have seen that, the cane whacking down on your green school knickers, and you jumping up and grabbing your bottom after each cane! I bet the cane made a very scary whipping sound as it travelled through the air, and then a very loud THWACK! each time Mrs Broadbent caned it down across your knickered bottom! Oh what a sore, cane-marked bottom you must have had inside your knickers Susan!

susan
Karen was blonde curly blonde Mrs Broadbent was slim dark short hair piecing blue eyes. Say a size 12. .

Remus
So what about when you got the pump Susan… you must have sometimes got quite a few whacks, if you were pumped until the chalk disappeared from your knickers.

When you got the cane from the Headmistress, did it sting more than the pump?

Could you stay bent over for the pump, or did you stand up and rub your bottom between swats?

Did you ever see the pattern of the sole of the pump on your bottom when you looked in the mirror, or was your bum just all red and blotchy?

When you looked at your bottom in the mirror after you’d be caned or pumped, did you like the look of the marks or find them exciting?

You mentioned you had the cane marks on your bottom for four days, so it sounds like you must have kept looking at them.

susan
Yes I could stay bent for the pump. .it was
Red like you said. The cane bites into ones bottom. .did it exite me Yes let’s say I played with myself 

Remus
Oh, how naughty Susan! ☺
So when were playing with yourself Susan, were you thinking about being caned on your knickers over the Headmistress’s desk?
And when you were getting the cane from Mrs Broadbent Susan, was it a mixture of fear and excitement, or did the excitement come afterwards when you looked at the marks on your bottom?

susan
It came afterwards? And I have a good imagination weather fantasies about the cane or over dad’s knee?

Remus
Afterwards, right…but you imagined or thought back to when you were getting the cane as you played with yourself?

susan
Yes

[End]

So that was my initial exchanges with Susan. Apart from a couple of old photos, I’ve not managed to find out much about St Mary’s School on the Web, so I was a little surprised to see the article today about the flats proposal, but even then, it didn’t come up immediately; it took several searches to discover it.

Ideally, I was hoping to come across an “old-girls'” FB page, with things like a picture of Mrs Broadbent, but so far I haven’t, or sadly any reference to Mrs Broadbent at all – although, my searches haven’t been as extensive as they might have been, as at the time, once I learned Susan had received the cane, my focus became obsessed very much on finding out all the details of that.

It would, of course, be very interesting to hear any other related tales about St Mary’s, if anyone can unearth them?

I hope this was of interest to some, and in other posts, I will also share the circumstances of my one personal experience of scp. I also have a few little related titbits that occurred during my school years, which would be of interest to me, if I heard them from someone else!

Best Regards.

Hello rkempt,

A most interesting contribution, thank you.

But as is my wont in this estimable Forum, I have to introduce some complication.    Possibly you may be disappointed in your speculation regarding living in a flat where schoolgirls were whacked.  However you are not alone in such little whimsies, see later.

Did Susan tell you that the school she attended was in St Mary’s Street please, or have you assumed that from the address of the school in the conversion proposal you link from the Lancashire Evening Post Site?

I am not the web researcher I once was.  I lost heart when Google switched from being a search engine where extremely precise and targeted searches were very easy to one which made them extremely difficult.

However I found the page here which, if you scroll down to the third item, contains a picture of the St Mary’s Street building from around 1972, before the early 1980s period when you indicate that Susan was at school.  I may be wrong, but it looks to me as though its condition indicates that the building was no longer in use as a school by 1972. The sign by the door would be a clue. but the resolution is insufficient for me to decipher it.  The planning application you linked say that currently it is used by a warehouse.

A problem is that school names in the UK can be exceedingly confusing.  Not only do schools change their names and locations from time to time, but there can be two or more schools with similar names in the same area.  This difficulty has been mentioned several times here in the past.

A further problem is that, incredible as it might seem, many ex-pupils do not actually seem to know the correct name of the school they attended!    An illustration of this latter was that on the now defunct Friends Reunited site the page for my secondary school, Nottingham High School, had a few entries from females.

Would that we’d had girls at my school.  The prospect of possibly having to bend over for the cane from a female prefect might have quite appealed to the juvenile Another_Lurker and made him much less apprehensive as he stood in front of the Prefects’ Court, knees knocking in his short trousers.. However it was a boys’ school.  Nary a female on the premises except the Headmaster’s secretary, Matron and the dining room staff. The carelessly posters on FR had presumably attended the nearby but unrelated Nottingham Girls’ High School.

I wonder if the school Susan attended might have been the St. Mary’s Girls’ School, Brownedge, Preston.  There certainly was such a school at one time.  A brass band site of all places, discussing a Preston. band. reports that:

the Preston Guardian in June 1887 states: “At Brownedge a grand opera ‘Britannia and Her Daughter was performed by the St. Mary’s Girls’ School.

Other possible references to this school suggest that it was a Catholic School.  Church schools of both Catholic and C of E denominations were great whackers of both girls and boys,  For the C of E witness Bacons School and the Senior (secondary) section of the C of E Junior School I attended caned girls on the bottom. If anything Catholic schools were even more inclined to use SCP than C of E schools..

I wonder if the St. Mary’s Girls’ School, Brownedge, Preston, merged into the The Brownedge St Marys’ Catholic High School.  This is now a co-ed school.  but if it was the school Susan attended a change of name and a merger with a boys’ school could have occurred after her time there.

This school still has a uniform policy, see the image here and appendices on the site indicate that it is enforced as was the case at Susan’s school.  However the image suggests that the skirt length of not more than 50 mm above the knee may be interpreted somewhat liberally as is the case in many UK schools now.

So far I can find no clues as to the nature of the Brownedge school in Susan’s era though.

As regards Susan’s account, fighting was often a caning offence, as was nicking stuff from teachers,  I haven’t encountered the chalk mark on the knickers for girls before, but I’ve seen reference to the technique used on both skirts and trousers.

It enabled a teacher to target the same area repeatedly to increase the punitive effect.   Sometimes the chalk was applied to the implement, cane or slipper, so that the first whack left an aiming mark.  Perhaps in the latter case and giving teachers the benefit of the doubt, it enabled them to avoid hitting the same spot more than once, as each stroke would leave a mark.

Some here have said that at their schools SCP was always in private with no other pupils present.  However I don’t think it was uncommon that where pupils erred together, such as the fight between Susan and the other girl, they were whacked together.  One of our former contributors reported being caned together with several other boys and girls.  Rather unfair on those at the back of the queue I think!

And my own experience of former use of premises speculation:  Some years ago I stayed in a large bed and breakfast establishment near Fort William, Scotland which in the SCP era had been one of the girls’ boarding houses of the Lochaber High School, a noted belting school in its day.  I confess to wondering how many girls had found themselves in the same room nursing a sore hand or hands and reflecting on a recent encounter with the tawse.

Hello Another_Lurker,

Thanks again for your reply.

The picture of St Mary’s School in St Mary’s Street is the one which Susan sent to me, stating that this was her school. So this is definitely the St Mary’s she’s was referring to.

Whether the date of 1972 is accurate for the picture in question, I couldn’t say, but based on my correspondence with Susan, which is more extensive than the elements I have shared in relation to the topic of her attendance at St Mary’s, I have no reason to doubt her.

She told me that she attended from 1979 to 1983, and based on her information that only last year girls received the cane (not a policy I’ve personally heard of before incidentally), her age when she told me this (51 in 2018), and that when she received the cane she was 15 going on 16, I arrived at 1983 as the year her canings took place.

My search for more information relating to St Mary’s will continue!

Hello rkempt (Remus?),

If I’m reading it correctly, your profile says you joined this forum 12 June 2014 but all your posts are very recent. Are you a returning member from the Network54 days?

Your account of your exchange with Susan makes fascinating reading. You mention using the content for a story. Are you a fellow author on a site such as https://www.thespankinglibrary.org or elsewhere?

Bottle green knickers as part of the female school uniform have been the subject of much conjecture on this forum in the past and I see that they get a mention in your above account. A blue skirt and green knickers does seem an unlikely combination but I’m sure it wasn’t unheard of.

Tales of Schoolgirls caned on the bottom are often viewed with much apprehension on this forum but much of what Susan reports does appear to be genuine. We can only hope that she is not just another fantasist and that when she “played with herself” she really was “thinking about being caned on (her) knickers over the Headmistress’s desk”.

You mention that more similar posts are to follow and I’m looking forward to sharing your personal experiences and exchanging ideas with you in the future.

i’m gonna step in to fill lotta nonsense’s shoes and say that this happening in Britain in the early 80s seems highly unlikely… not impossible but highly unlikely

Hello WWT.

Thanks for your comment.  It is true that I signed up for the forum some years ago, during the Network54 time, and as far as I can remember, these are my first contributions in terms of comments.

Looking at the date I originally signed up, this was just about a month before I became sick with a condition which took me a while to recover from, so despite my great interest in such matters as are discussed on the forum, it’s easy for me to see how I could have forgotten about its existence.

In fact, I was only recently reminded of it, following searches for information concerning the Lynne Simmons / Janet Dines case, which reappeared in my thoughts, as these things do!

I’m not an author on a site like you mention; although I have written some stories in the last year or so, mostly for my own enjoyment, and all on the theme of scp.

I did create a story based on Susan’s first caning, which I sent to her. I don’t regard it as my best work, but it was tethered to, and in some ways constrained to the details she provided.

Some other details I’d enquired about were never forthcoming, so I had to fill in the gaps with some speculation and guesswork, which I wasn’t fond of doing. I’m talking about details like, were the girls accompanied to the Headmistress’s Office by another teacher; did the Headmistress retrieve the cane from a cupboard; did she bend and swish it in front of the girls as she lectured them – those kind of things. They might be less important details to some folks, but personally I’m very much into the build-up, in terms of my interest, and would say those elements are at least as important to me as the actual caning itself. So I wasn’t overly keen in not having the full facts, and having to substitute for them.

Anyway, once I’d composed the story I told Susan I had done so, if she was interested in reading it, and she asked me to send it to her. After reading it she responded in her customary concise way with, “Bravo well  done. Def turned  me on. ”

So, at least on the face of it, my efforts were worthwhile. Our most recent correspondence towards the end of last month consisted of me posing a series of questions as a basis for writing a follow up story of her second visit to the Headmistress’s Office, but as of yet, she has not responded. I suspect unless I follow up with a further message, this could well be the end of our correspondence, and after the initial communication on a certain site, the follow up email contact has largely been driven by myself. At some point, one has to take the hint and not risk becoming a nuisance I feel!

Saying that, if I awake in a certain mood, a particular frame of mind, I may just think, damn how it looks, and write again. My interest in such matters generally overpowers other concerns!

I quite agree that bottle green knickers paired with a navy blue skirt does seem an odd combination, but perhaps that irregularity in some ways makes it more realistic, maybe, with life being far from “uniform” at times!

scp on girls with their skirts raised was not generally acceptable in 1980, if you are trying to claim it was you are clearly a fantasist… it might have happened on rare occasion but i very much doubt there was any respectable school where it was general practice, if it was reported in the papers it would have been sensational and definitely considered outrageous… slippering over gym shorts was i’m sure a much more common and less controversial occurrence, caning over gym shorts less common but still not news worthy, girls punished in their underwear a whole different kettle of fish.

WWT has cast some doubt on the online conversations from ‘Susan’. Another_Lurker’s information questioning locations does also cast doubt on all this. Dane’s comments are correct too.

All that said I am certain that some girls were caned across their bottoms in school. Lynne Simmonds, 14, certainly had three strokes of the cane  on her bottom from Miss Janet Dines, headmistress of Northwich Girls’ Grammar School, Cheshire in 1976. This was never disputed. Miss Dines had taught in Romford, Essex some 10 years before becoming headmistress in Northwich. She used a cane that she had used in her previous school. The fact that Lynne held her dress up and bent over to take a caning would indicate that it was an accepted method of punishment in her school.

That said bottom caning for girls in UK schools, although permitted by many local education authorities, was not used anything like as often as on boys. I’ve heard of girls being slippered, some in mixed schools where boys were caned. I believe the majority of caning for girls in UK schools right up to the ban was given across hands. I went to a boys only grammar school. The nearby similar girls school, as I understand, very rarely used CP and that was the cane across hands for serious offences given across hands. Someone mentioned canings at Bacons Comprehensive School in London. From what I have read girls were caned across their hands there.

The great majority of authentic UK reports go back to the 1970s and earlier.

In the past many parents supported schools using corporal punishment. It was no different to what many parents themselves used at home back then. My wife was given the slipper at home in the 1960s and I had girl cousins who were spanked by their mother. However over the years more parents stopped using spanking at home and began to disapprove of schools still using it. As far as I’m concerned there is no place for juvenile corporal punishment nowadays.

Here it is difficult to tell what is fact and what is fantasy.

I think there’s always room for some guarded skepticism when reviewing these types of accounts, but I also think there’s a very real danger of falling into a mindset where the first reaction is to automatically disbelieve everything, when there’s really no evidence to support or justify arriving at such conclusions.

rkempt I tend to agree with you. Many youngsters felt corporal punishment in school or at home, some both. Many are reluctant to admit to getting either nowadays. It is still one of the few remaining taboo subjects.

I believe most of the regulars here will get an inkling when things don’t really seem right. That’s not to say all of the memories are exaggerated or fiction. I tend not to relate some of the cp that I knew of, that way no one can say they are untrue or exaggerated!

Hello rkempt,

I could be wrong, I very much hope that I am wrong.  But I think that just possibly Susan’s account may be flawed.  Let me say though that by posting it you have certainly generated some traffic and that is most excellent.  And personally I have absolutely no objection to spanking fiction here provided that it isn’t a deliberate attempt to deceive for malicious purposes and preferably is flagged as fiction.

But first the possibility that the information from Susan was correct.  There appears to have been more than one school in St Mary’s Street.  However I assume, though I cannot confirm, that the St Mary’s school there was associated with the St Mary’s Church also in St Mary’s Street.  This was an Anglican Parish Church in the 1980s though it has been redundant since 1996,

As I noted in the thread above C of E schools were perhaps a little more inclined to SCP than Local Authority Schools, witness Bacons School, reputedly the highest caning school in the Inner London Education Authority area in it’s SCP heyday, certainly as regarded girls.  And indeed the senior school associated with the junior school I attended, which caned girls on the bottom, though that was in the 1950s and I do not know how long the practice persisted.

If the school was a simple local C of E secondary (senior) school the academic attainment of pupils would not necessarily be particularly high.  Susan’s writings do perhaps suggest a level of education consistent with this.

That’s the positive stuff.  Now my doubts:

As already noted an alleged 1972 photograph of the school shows it as already pretty run down and not looking as though it might  still be a school.  This is 10 years or so prior to the date put on Susan’s caning.

Susan sends you a picture of her claimed school.  This picture had recently appeared in local media in connection with a planning application.  Could it have been a case of “oh this one will do”?

Despite extensive searching I can find absolutely no reference on the web to the St Mary’s School in question other than in lists of schools and in other items such as the various photographs and the sales and planning application items. These  confirm its existence but give no indication as to what type of school it was or when it ceased to be used for educational purposes.  No pupil’s recollections anywhere, no mentions in local discussions, nothing.

Now this would suggest to me that scholastic activities there ceased a long time ago and that any former pupils were are either deceased or so old that they are not active on the web.  This  might signify that the school was already closed by the 1980s.

In fairness though there are three things which may make that latter an unwise conclusion.  It looks as though it was a fairly small school, so it may not have had many pupils.  And if a good level of literacy was not a major feature of pupil attainment, as suggested earlier, they may be disinclined to put themselves about on the web. Also would the Preston Blog accompany its 1972? picture of the school with a query as to whether anyone had any memories of the school if this was very unlikely.  Possibly they might.  Local media isn’t famed for its deep thought.  But certainly nobody appears to have responded to the query.

Finally there is the girls only at the school aspect.  I am perhaps on dubious terrain, but if it was a C of E school I’d have expected either a mixed school or an associated boys’ school, and I can’t find anything on the latter.

Of course my searches may be rubbish, and I’m quite happy to be told so and shot down.  If only we could engage the interest of our ace web researcher American Way, but other than the very occasional foray into the UK and other non-US territories his interests lie firmly on the other side of the Atlantic.  Unlike my very esteemed fellow contributor dane from the US who is prepared to write above:

scp on girls with their skirts raised was not generally acceptable in 1980, if you are trying to claim it was you are clearly a fantasist

Any chance of you providing a little more foundation for that statement please Dane?

And onto more general matters.  I note that you say of pre-caning rituals:

They might be less important details to some folks, but personally I’m very much into the build-up, in terms of my interest, and would say those elements are at least as important to me as the actual caning itself

Quite so!  A man after my own heart!  I’ve been known to argue here that if you get the preliminary rituals of SCP right there’s no need to actually whack the offender at all.  Proceedings prior to punitive impact will have made such an impression on them that they’ll never do whatever it was again, ever!  Ritual but not the rod one might say.  Sadly though this is difficult to implement because to ensure success each pre-punishment ritual would need to be carefully tailored to the individual recipient.

The real very shy, nervous and introverted juvenile Another_Lurker didn’t need much ritual to persuade him that he never ever again wanted to face the Prefects’ Court and risk being caned:

The anxious wait in the tutor set period knowing that today was the day and unable to concentrate on catching up on homework etc., and chatting to boys from other forms and the tutor himself  that usually went in that period.

The priv (privileged sixth former, sort of sub-prefect) knocking on the door, entering, approaching the tutor and saying “please sir, the prefects would like to see Another_Lurker”.

The long walk down corridors and up flights of stairs to the prefects’ room in the tower atop the school obediently following the silent priv.

The doom laden instruction to “stand there and wait until you’re called in” outside the door to the prefects’ room, followed by the departure of the priv to fetch the next victim.

The door of the prefects’ room opening and then closing again as an anxious looking boy from a couple of forms up exited and headed down the stairs.

A wait of a few hours, well it felt like that, but actually it was only a few seconds, before the bellowed “Another_Lurker” from within.

Entering, and instantly seeing first not the assembled prefects but the cane on the table in front of them.  I’d never seen a traditional curly handled school cane in the flesh before, but I knew exactly what it was from comics etc., only it looked even more threatening than I’d have expected.

Although I knew the prefects caned, somehow at that point it became a reality which might actually happen to me and my knees really did knock in my short trousers, or at least that’s how it felt.  The thought of having to bend over in front of the stern faced assembly of prefects facing me across the table to be whacked with that thing was quite terrifying.

And even though I exited a couple of minutes later with just lines for my sin of running in a quadrangle where running wasn’t allowed, that ritual up to and including seeing the cane was all it took to persuade me never to fall foul of the prefects again.  And I didn’t.  Further, when I made priv myself and could put boys in the prefects’ book for a court appearance and possible caning I didn’t do that either.

But if the character of the rather more confident and vastly more extrovert current Another_Lurker could somehow morph back to that 13 year old boy in the 1950s and re-run the scene rather more might be needed to achieve the same effect.

A long lecture on my sins while I uncomfortably stand to attention hands behind head in front of the court perhaps.  Some determined cane swishing and flexing to demonstrate the uniquely intimidating properties of the implement.

A threatening explanation of exactly what would happen if I had to return to be caned.  A theoretical appeal to the headmaster against being caned was included in the schedule though seldom utilised so unfortunates had to return at an appointed time on a subsequent day.

How I’d have to bend over and touch my toes in front of any other prefects who happened to be present in addition to the appointed caner for my up to three really hard strokes.

That my short trousers would have to come down.  That didn’t happen in reality.  Nor did underpants having to follow trousers to the ankles and shirt tail being folded up to bare the target area, but this is speculation based on an impossible to implement premise.  

Prefects were almost invariably third year sixth formers, 18 to 19 year old young men bound for the Oxbridge colleges for which an extra year’s schooling was the custom then. With some burly thug from the school’s rugby 1st XV likely to wield the cane the above list of preliminary rituals would definitely have been enough to deter even the new-style juvenile Another_Lurker and make the actual caning unnecessary.

But if it had been a mixed school with some female prefects and a serious and studious but very attractive young lady from 6th Classics 3 gave the lecture, demonstrated the cane and might well wield it on the day if it came to actual rather than threatened whacks, why even those preliminaries wouldn’t deter the new juvenile Another_Lurker.  If let off with lines he’d have been  running  round those quadrangles the very next day, having first alerted every priv and prefect he could find to his intentions!

Perhaps more marginal if the female prefect was the athletic and sports oriented captain of the school’s hockey 1st team.  Men who’ve played in mixed hockey games tell me that female hockey players are very fit and very vicious, definitely taking no prisoners!  So in that case the re-vamped juvenile Another_Lurker might be more concerned about the prospect of losing the protection of his trousers.

Which is why my ‘ritual but not the rod’ theory is indeed very difficult to implement in practice.  There’s just too much variation in humans!  

Without entering further into whether the remus/susan interent conversation are fact or fiction or even a mixture of both I will divert a little.

The interesting suggestion of living in the same premises that were in the past the scene of SCP. I remember an old boys only grammar school being converted into flats back in the early 1990s. It had the usual large high window setup indicating three classrooms on the ground floor with similar sets of windows on the upper floor. These may have been repeated on the far side of the building too. At one end of the main building was a rather fine looking single storey building, This I was reliably told housed the headmaster’s office. The whole building probably dated back to the 1900s. The conversion appeared to be fairly simple with the large classrooms turning into studio flats. The single storey building was turned into a rather splendid looking flat, almost a bungalow. I have absolutely no doubt that a succession of schoolboys, over perhaps four or more generations, bent over to be caned in that building.

For those who would love to live in such a building but unable to find one could almost be reassured that in the great majority of houses built in Victorian times or earlier would have been, at some time, the site of parental CP.

I remember my wife’s parents moving into am early Victorian/late Georgian six bedroom house in a Berkshire village.It had belonged to the village doctor at some stage and other owners must have been reasonably well to do folk. I helped the inlaws when they moved in. Access to one part of loft was through a large wall cupboard in one of the bathrooms.

To get into this loft involved standing on a chair or the like and climbing into the loft. I did this one day and as I held onto the edge of the cupboard I felt inside tucked into an almost hidden space just inside the loft was a three foot cane. A straight not particularly bendy cane, it could have been used as a plant support in the house or just from a feather duster handle. It was tucked away, accessable by anyone reaching into the cupboard from a standing position the room. One only had to use a chair when climbing into the loft. I had no idea of what the purpose of this cane had been in the past but it fun to imagine!

ask her to post an old school pic of her ! (uniform etc)
also ask if her is she was punished at home, with the same details, slipper/ cane / handpanking etc

There are some excellent follow up contributions, addressing several issues. Thank you gentlemen!

Jack – I think some of the details you ask about the slipperings are answered in the text of my conversation with Susan, but Susan described her slipperings (or getting the pump, as we referred to it “Up North”) as too numerous to count.

It sounded as though they would often consist of several strokes, as she described the P.E. teacher’s custom of drawing a chalk mark on their knickers and pumping until the chalk had disappeared, and that slipperings would be given in the touching toes position.

Susan said that her upbringing was very strict, and that she was spanked by her Dad, I think she mentioned with his belt, but to be perfectly honest, I really have no interest in domestic punishments whatsoever, so my brain tends to skip over and not retain the details.

I have certainly thought previously about requesting a picture of Susan in her St Mary’s uniform, if she had such a thing, but until now had held off, being unsure of just how to properly and appropriately approach the topic.

However, I suddenly got the idea of using this week’s news article about the proposal to convert her old school into flats, to lead into the question. So I emailed her this morning, requesting such. It remains to be seen how, or if she will respond.

rkempt wrote:There are some excellent follow up contributions, addressing several issues. Thank you gentlemen!

Jack –  I think some of the details you ask about the slipperings are answered in the text of my conversation with Susan, but Susan described her slipperings (or getting the pump, as we referred to it “Up North”) as too numerous to count.

It sounded as though they would often consist of several strokes, as she described the P.E. teacher’s custom of drawing a chalk mark on their knickers and pumping until the chalk had disappeared, and that slipperings would be given in the touching toes position.

Susan said that her upbringing was very strict,  and that she was spanked by her Dad, I think she mentioned with his belt, but to be perfectly honest, I really have no interest in domestic punishments whatsoever, so my brain tends to skip over and not retain the details.

I have certainly thought previously about requesting a picture of Susan in her St Mary’s uniform, if she had such a thing, but until now had held off, being unsure of just how to properly and appropriately approach the topic.

However, I suddenly got the idea of using this week’s news article about the proposal to convert her old school into flats, to lead into the question. So I emailed her this morning, requesting such. It remains to be seen how, or if she will respond.

Click to expand…

thats good,
as to her slipperings only the pe teacher or did any other teachers slipper her?
i would still like to know how was she punished at home, esp getting the belt after getting the slipper at school

The relevant parts included in the above concerning the pump:

“I got the cane twice? The pump ? I lost track form teachers used the pump.”

“And a p.e . Teacher who used to draw a cross ? With chalk on our knickers depending on how many we got ? Till the cross vanished?”

“p.e. teacher would make us touch our toes.”

Hello rkempt,

You are indeed correct about the school name.  I was confused by the apparently differing pitches of the roofs in the various pictures but the building appears to have two main bays with different roofs and the pictures are from multiple positions.

Here it is from the excellent aerial photograph part way down on the page here which you have already seen I think.

As you will probably have noted there are references lower down the page to male pupils at the school in the 1920s and 1930s, when it may have either been or included a Junior School (up to age 11/12) as there is a reference to going on to Grammar School.

There are various other references on the web to both males and females attending the school in earlier years but the latest I found was, I think, the late 1940s, which isn’t surprising if as you note the school closed in 1959, some years before Susan’s dates.

I hope that Siusan responds to your latest letter and clarifies the matter!

Hello Another_Lurker,

I came across a couple of posters who had attended up to its close in 1959, and also a snippet of information that there was another school, a C of E one, further along St Mary’s Street, but as yet, I haven’t found any other details about that one.

The building that Susan indicated was her former school was the one which housed the Methodist school though.

If it turns out there’s no rational explanation for all of this, I will be most puzzled by the motive. For one thing, I never asked for a picture of her school; it was just offered out of the blue:

“Got a picture of my old school. In Preston”

Susan had since moved on from Preston, but not a million miles away.

The plot thickens!

Stranger than fiction or should that be stranger than fact! 

Of course, Susan may be a member of this forum and is following the discussion with interest!

I have no doubt that ‘Susan‘ is a member of this forum!

Hello Another_Lurker.

Not much progress to report; although my searches have now unearthed two headmistresses named Mrs Broadbent. One instance with more details than the other.

A Mrs Doris Broadbent of St Helen’s School in Northwood, and then a Mrs M Teresa Broadbent who took a position at the other end of the country from Preston, in Brighton, at a school coincidentally called St Mary’s Hall, from 1988 to 1991, before departing through ill health.

It was written about her time:

“In the late 1980s, it was not an easy time to be a Headmistress when social and economic
changes imposed such radical reappraisals of basic skills on a profession which, to a certain
degree, had hitherto drifted along from generation to generation. Mrs Broadbent faced a great challenge, only to be prevented by a sudden deterioration in her health from completing her due term in office.

“As I review my short History (it is now 2004), Mrs Meek is at the helm successfully
confronting all the challenges of a socialist-dominated modern era. Mrs James retired in 1997, having stepped into the breach as an in-house appointment on Mrs Broadbent’s sudden
departure. She, with great sureness of touch, led St Mary’s Hall through a time of renewed
difficulty which posed the greatest threat of all to a School – declining pupil numbers in the
Independent Sector of Education.”

If the girls at this St Mary’s had been acting up like they reportedly had been in 1861, it’s understandable that Mrs Broadbent might have been feeling the strain, with former remedies no longer available to her:

“Discipline had clearly been a problem, and recalcitrant girls were sternly dealt with. They would have to lie flat on their back on the Nursery floor (no doubt in a howling draught) under the questionably eagle eye of the
“Elliott scholar” as she sat in grim silence mending her white cotton stockings. They would have to sit on the lockers which lined the large schoolroom, hemming dusters. They would frequently be sent to bed during the day, and as frequently be got up and obliged to dress – a more complex business then than now (although apparently culprits would slip their nightdresses on over their clothes to speed things up).”

Whether it’s anything to do with Susan’s Mrs Broadbent or not, it was an interesting, well written read this document, which I’m glad I stumbled across!:

http://www.smhassociation.org/resources … yofSMH.PDF

In all probability it’s not the same Mrs Broadbent, but the timeline certainly allows for it. A headmistress, Mrs Broadbent, allegedly at Susan’s school in 1983, in charge of St Mary’s in Preston, and then a Mrs Broadbent accepting a position in Brighton in 1988.

Nothing of any substance, but fun searching nonetheless!

Hello rkempt,

Excellent!  Clearly you are a dab hand at web research!  I agree with you that it possibly isn’t the same Mrs Broadbent, but it certainly could be and the dates fit.

But what a splendid find, the document you link about the history of St Mary’s Hall School, Brighton.  Those poor girls in the  1860s being punished by having to sit  on lockers and hem dusters and by being sent to bed during the day!  I bet they’d sooner have had the slipper or cane like  Susan, even if it was on the knickers!  Mind you in 1861 it would probably have been the birch and according to claims a recent post in another thread that would have  been applied sans knickers, so perhaps hemming dusters might have been preferable after all!

I enjoyed a subsequent paragraph too.  Apparently if girls were really naughty they were sent to Canon Babington, brother-in-law of the school’s founder and the then head honcho.  He had an interesting approach to discipline:

One such interview has been recorded when in ?1881 Maude Vidal and Florrie Mooney were ushered, in a state of considerable apprehension, into his presence by an angry Miss Newport. “Dear old Canon Babington looked down at the two little smiling faces (poetic licence, one assumes) and, putting his hands on their shoulders, … all he said was: “My dears, I don’t think you want to be naughty do you?”. “Oh no, we don’t”. “Then run along and be good little girls, and God bless you””

I’d like to be able to say that that worked better than all the duster hemming and jumping in and out of bed, but apparently it didn’t.  Florrie Mooney was in trouble again straight away, and after various other punishments was made to write a letter to her father, which Miss Newport dictated, telling him that she was in disgrace.

Hello Another_Lurker.

Yes, my understanding, from all that I’ve read about flagellation over the years, is that the birch would have been a much more likely choice of implement in that era. The cane eventually being introduced and preferred, due to its ability to effectively penetrate clothing, and thus ensure punishment without breaching decency thresholds.

Awaking this morning seemingly overcome with an atypical wave of proactivity, I emailed the local paper, specifically the reporter who wrote the story about the proposed flat conversion, to ask if she had any other information about the building; specifically when it was last used as a school.

I’m anticipating that some kind of response from the reporter, helpful or otherwise, will be forthcoming, and at this stage is probably more likely than one from my seemingly erstwhile correspondent Susan!

I’m doing my level best, and all in my power, to try to ensure that Mrs Broadbent is recognised as a genuine historical character, and does not fade away, simply and easily dismissed as a fictional figment created by a fantasist.

The quest continues!

Hello rkempt,

With regard to SCP in the mid 19th century you wrote above:

Yes, my understanding, from all that I’ve read about flagellation over the years, is that the birch would have been a much more likely choice of implement in that era. The cane eventually being introduced and preferred, due to its ability to effectively penetrate clothing, and thus ensure punishment without breaching decency thresholds.

Indeed so, and by chance I have to hand a picture which has appeared here before:

The juvenile Another_Lurker waiting his turn for a dose of the birch from his headmistress aided by two assistant teachers for dropping his slate in class. Wonderful colour for the era, clever chap that Fox Talbot fellow!  

I am greatly impressed by your research efforts, designed as you note to:

try to ensure that Mrs Broadbent is recognised as a genuine historical character, and does not fade away, simply and easily dismissed as a fictional figment created by a fantasist.

And doubtless to secure her a place alongside other notable female scholastic flagellators should Susan re-appear and and establish that the raisings of skirts and canings on knickers at St Mary’s school, St Mary’s Street, Preston in the 1980s were no fantasy!

This Forum has played host to some notable female scholastic flagellators over the years, Mrs Beale-Buss, MM and debbie112 for instance.  Perhaps the greatest of them was Dorothy.  But sadly, although she posted here on her own claimed experiences in receipt of SCP when when she was at boarding school,  her monumental and memorable feats with the cane as a headmistress were recorded in another Forum.  They included caning boys on the bare in front of the mixed school while their female partners in crime watched anxiously awaiting their turn to bend over for knicker adjustment prior to receiving the cane themselves.

Dorothy’s reign as headmistress was of course over a very fantastic fantasy school.  The other three were considerably more believable in terms of the SCP they claimed to administer but were nonetheless beyond all reasonable doubt the work of male authors.  We must hope that Mrs Broadbent’s exploits with the cane at St Mary’s have a sounder footing.

rkempt wrote:  Yes, my understanding, from all that I’ve read about flagellation over the years, is that the birch would have been a much more likely choice of implement in that era. The cane eventually being introduced and preferred, due to its ability to effectively penetrate clothing, and thus ensure punishment without breaching decency thresholds.

In some recent research about historical CP in Germany, I found it interesting that the birch was considered a ‘girl’s implement’.  In one early 20th Century report, for instance, when a boy of twelve years saw that he was threatened with a birch rod, he did not oppose the punishment, but the shameful contact with this ‘girl’s means of education’.  It was written that “the birch, applied to the naked skin, is indeed one of the most harmless tools but, because of the humiliation involved in its application, is probably the most effective at the same time”.

Hi Another_Lurker,

Thanks for your as ever interesting post, and pointing me in the direction of earlier contributions, which will no doubt be of interest to a fellow with predilections such as my own, and provide a little light reading and entertainment when time allows.

Still no responses from either Susan, or (slightly more surprisingly) the journalist from the local paper, who brought us the news of the proposed flats conversion for the former St Mary’s School building. Perhaps she has made endeavours to obtain relevant background information concerning her story, and is herself awaiting a response, prior to getting back to me. Or, perhaps she has entirely ignored my email. I do tend to expect too much these days, such as a courteous reply, it’s true. Time will tell, although with each day that passes, it is already beginning to hint at the outcome.

So for the time being, the case goes cold, and I leave Mrs Broadbent teetering on the edge of the percipice; the great divide between historical character and fictional figure. For her, much is at stake.

Perhaps the Preston Historical Society, or the local Council will be my next point of enquiry to establish the last time the building was used as a school.

Hello hcj,

It would be most interesting to know if  the “unmanly” birch which so concerned the 12 year old boy facing punishment with it, as mentioned in your contribution #30 above, was indeed a spray birch as suggested by rkempt in his contribution #32.

While I have seen claims to the contrary it has always seemed to me that the rather light spray birch sometimes depicted, especially in the chastisement of young ladies, could not be particularly painful, however deployed.

Indeed, when the illustration of the juvenile Another_Lurker awaiting the birch (currently for some unknown reason not displaying correctly in my post #29) was originally posted here, out of deference to my younger self I found it necessary to upgrade the rather flimsy spray birch depicted in the Russian painting here to something more substantial.

An SCP wimp the lad might have been, but not that much of a wimp!  

Of course Another_Lurker and rkempt are quite correct in thinking that the incident I referred to involved a spray birch.  However, there was an interesting comment from the original author, writing about a time pre-World War 2:

In English schools it was used for solemn punishment in front of the whole school, and in Ireland it is still used today in the form of several young fruit tree shoots.

I am inclined the think that the writer had confused Ireland and the Isle of Man, as he seems to be accurately describing the Manx birch.  I am not aware that the birch, especially the Manx birch, was commonly used in Ireland, but I may be wrong and would be interested to hear from anyone who has evidence of its use.

i have seen several… ah… uhmmm… “educationa”l videos using a spray birch and a great many more using a cane and they seem about the same level of effectiveness when applied to bare flesh and the birch seems to have been used to apply more strokes in scp i don’t see any reason why it would be considered a lesser punishment

I know many members are not partial to Mood productions but the video Lashville: Town of justice shows 4 young ladies receiving the birch. It really is a tour de force for those who want to learn what a real birching involved.

Hello dane,

Are you sure you mean a spray birch when you compare efficiency in delivering punitive effect with that of a cane?  BTW, why not use your old avatar picture with your new identity to remind readers of your past distinctions here.

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Hello bripuk,

I certainly don’t like Mood Pictures output, far too violent for my tastes.  However, I recall ‘Lashville: Town of justice’ and remember commenting on it here before.  It’s the one where the birching horse was designed for 12 foot tall prisoners.   But in the context of the discussion here the birch used in that production is most certainly not a spray birch, full on Isle of Man type I’d say! Warning!  Image linked contains nudity. See this picture from the film.

Don’t like Mood output either. I believe however that they were raided by police a few years ago. After lengthy discussion the police left with no charges brought against the production team. Draw your own conclusion.

Hello lansallos,

I suspect that strokes are pulled and marks are faked in Mood productions and I very much hope that is the case.  If indeed they were raided by police and were able to establish that then it might account for no action being taken.

But be that as it may, the image projected is one of unpleasant violence and the ludicrous props blunders in the few videos I have seen irritate me.

i think newer mood/elitepain/gaias videos are at least partially faked… the older ones i’m not so sure

Yes A_L, I agree with everything you say. Faked or not they make for unpleasant viewing for me at least.

I guess I ought to apologize for raising the subject of Mood videos. Just for the record I also find then far too violent for my tastes but the one I alluded to in a previous post I imagine may bear some semblance to what actually used to take place in the Isle of Man and other jurisdictions although clearly the position the females were required to adopt was unnatural to say the least.

Hello dane,

We really must stop agreeing on everything, it’s unnatural! 

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Hello lansallos,

I’m glad to find that you are of the same opinion regarding Mood pictures output.

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Hello bripuk,

I think you are in the right area regarding actual birching, though I think the Lashville variety possibly exceeded even the worst of the notorious Manx judicial birchings in severity.  And of course the latter were never applied to females.   The Mood equipment designers for the Lashville restraint apparatus were almost certainly influenced by this image, which is widespread on the web, but I think they overlooked the fact that it shows a boy being birched, not an adult.  And then someone made it in inches when the plans were in centimetres! 

In my opinion the superb Corpun site should be the first point of reference on birching.  For Manx birching the article here is essential.  A most interesting link therein is to a Sunday Mirror article on the 9 stroke birching of 4 Glasgow youths in 1965 when the new style birch similar to the Lashville variety was in use. A photograph shows some of the ‘damage’.  The youths appear to have got off rather more lightly than the Lashville ladies.  There was no specific restraint apparatus, they were simply held down by policemen bent over the back of a chair and their trousers pulled down.

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As noted earlier most ‘adult’  CP output is far too violent for me.  My own favourite was a site now apparently defunct, in which a group of ladies produced school scenes.  There seemed to be a problem with accommodation and many of the interior sets were rather cramped.  However ‘games days’ took place in what looked like a local park and and there were ‘outings’ to city locations.  The school uniforms were a bit of a mix, one ‘pupil’ having a penchant for a Japanese schoolgirl outfit.

The whole thing was very innocent, though proceedings were sometimes enlivened by a ‘teacher’ who  liked to don horse riding garb and another (or was it the same one) who occasionally sported a military outfit and made much play with a pair of handcuffs with which ‘pupils’ were secured before, during or after SCP.  Oh, and the occasional appearance by a ‘school nurse’ who wielded both cane and slipper.  This latter appealed to me as at my secondary school the matron merely dispensed the odd asprin!

A typical scene, in which the horse riding ‘teacher’ conducts a caning on the bare while the next ‘pupil’ waits hands behind head in her bottle green knickers for her turn, is to be found here.  One very much had the impression that people just turned up, some sort of scene was cobbled together to fit those available and everybody did their own thing and had a jolly good time.  Had there been any apparent openings for male ‘pupils’ I’d certainly have considered enrolling but alas it appeared to be an all-girl school.  

Just a quick contribution re the reality of slippers being used on girls at school in the UK.

My first wife attended Grove Park School, Bromley ,Kent from 1969 to 1974 . The slipper was extensively used on both male (mainly) and female pupils, especially in years 3 and 4 (ages approx 14/15). Most of these were given by a senior male teacher who had a slipper caller Excalibur.

I believe that caning of girls at the school was prohibited except possibly in very exceptional circumstances. Boys were caned but not in front of the class and all canings were witnessed and recorded in a punishment book. Slipperings were not recorded or witnessed and were mostly given in class.

To put things in perspective, I understand the teacher concerned was very popular and some of the slipperings ,especially on girls, were sometimes light heated and purely token . A girl would be called to the front of the class for say talking out of turn or cheekiness and told to stand next to the teachers desk. She did not have to bend over or have to lean over his lap and he would not get out of his seat . He would give one token whack of the the slipper and she would be told to return to her seat. Sometimes with a giggle on her lips. Whether such activity should actually be classed as corporal punishment is possibly debatable.

I understand some slipperings were more severe and hurt quite a bit but were generally considered by the majority to be preferable to detentions,lines or having to write essays which were also part of the discipline regime.

I hope this contribution assists.

Thanks for your contribution Sir John 2.

It’s certainly true that there was a wide variation in the severity.

I witnessed several jocular “punishments” during my school years, and one quite shocking (in terms of its severity), brutal slippering of an unfortunate boy from another form, brought in front of our class and bent over the teacher’s desk.

I think the classroom we were in must have been the form room of the teacher who carried out the slippering, as it wasn’t a teacher who was teaching us at the time, or who we had for any lessons actually.

It must just have been where he kept his pump (that’s what it was really, rather a slipper).

A slippering could vary from a few token taps to a good hard spanking. In schools a slippering was usually applied with a fairly large plimsoll. Except on rare occasions, PE lessons etc. the plimsoll was used across the seat of trousers. Many school ‘slipperings were given in class esp. in boys only schools but boys in mixed schools were sometimes punished in front of the mixed class,

I know little of girls being slippered but I have read of girls getting it in mixed schools where the boys were caned. I have no knowledge of CP in girls only schools. My wife went to a private convent school as a day girl, there was no CP used there on boarders or day girls.

Many parents used a slipper at home back in the 1950s/60s. I’m sure methods varied greatly. Back then it was seen as a proper, almost approved, way of family discipline. Times were very different, youngsters accepted that if they did wrong and were caught they’d be punished. Not all families used spanking, loss of pocket money, being kept in at weekends and having to help more at home were all other ways of punishing.

There is a detailed description of slipperings at a Northern Grammar school on the Corpun web site.

The article that bripuk mentions above is to be found here

It should be remembered that in the UK the slipper as a school punishment was not confined to boys, as Sir John 2 notes above.  A longstanding contributor who recently announced his departure from the Forum and I both posted quite early in our time here on how seeing female classmates slippered on the knickers, conventional and the gym variety respectively, had influenced our subsequent interest in SCP.

Speaking of knickers I can add a small addition to my original post which members may find interesting. Regulation blue knicks may have been the stipulated underwear for girl pupuls under the school uniform  at Grove park but I understand the rules were either  not that enforced or the girls chose to ignore it after being at the school a year or so. Gym and sports kits were normal blue shorts and white tops.

.I  further  understand  polka dot and pink Airtex were popular colour choices at the time  though these would usually  be buried under thick black tights except in the summer. These were the days when trousers for girls were strictly prohibited  at school even in the coldest weather.These were also the days of the micro mini and girls were reknown for rolling up their waistbands so their skirts barely covered the essentials.Some girls found it amusing to discretely/accidently  or otherwise to briefly  flash their future laundry.  Which brings me to the story I was told by my wife and one of my wife’s friends who was also a school chum of hers. Her name was Wendy but some boys at school had nick named her Saints in a parody of the Jazz standard and this nick name stuck for many years even after she left school. Anyway the gist of the tale is that Saints was being slippered for something (presumably during a warm period) and when she bent over her the lower part  of her knicks was exposed because of her skirt being so short.This apparently caused whistles and comment from male pupils in the class. Now it would have been nice to report that the teacher took full advantage of this situation and perhaps even added a wedgie to improve the sting but no .He did the correct thing and made her stand up and unravel her waistband so her skirt was a respectable length before proceeding . He did however apparently find the incident amusing and had  a smile on his face. As previously mentioned this teacher was popular and obviously a Gentleman.

Hello, Sir John 2
It’s Paul:
Welcome to our forum. I’ve not, as yet, had the pleasure of discussing posts with you.
I have to say I’ve thoroughly enjoyed your contributions, especially the slippering of Wendy (‘Saints).’ What a superb story. I simply love R/L school memories that conclude with a school whacking of a girl.
Oh, yes, I too, recall girls at my secondary school rolling up their skirts. The headmaster of the annexe school where I went for woodwork, metalwork, etc, during my fourth year, would wait on the gate for our arrival, ready to pounce on those who had breached  school uniform regulations. To be fair it was mainly girls he stopped. It was usually for rolled up skirts or wrong colours he came down on. But jewellery and make up was another. He had a black book where he added your name. In those days (1968/69 I entered the 4^th form) girls had a passion for bringing in little transistor radios. He’d soon confiscated those!!! Sadly, as I’ve bemoaned on here before, SCP was extremely rare at my school and never for girls.
It’s funny how some whacking teachers were popular. I’ve come across this on both Friends Reunited and Facebook.
So you say this incident took place at Grove Park School, Bromley, Kent circa 69-74. All I can say is how lucky for the viewing boys to see this spectacle. So as far you know, ‘Saints’ had no qualms about bending over, bottom to the class, in front of a mixed class?  And she didn’t even attempt to roll down her skirt? WOW! What a girl. You are correct, Sir John, the teacher could have made a meal of it, but used his common sense and made her stand to adjust her skirt. Very Wise! And I must say I adored the fact that he smiled about it after. I wonder if he discussed it with his teaching colleagues in the staff room.
I need to ask the inevitable:
Any idea what ‘Saints’ did wrong? She sounds a bit of a livewire!
How old was ‘Saints’ at the time?
And how many whacks?
I do not ask for much………..do I??? LOL!
That he named his slipper ‘Excalibur’ makes me question his motives, as well as all the other teachers who did similar. I’m not at all suggesting he was ‘dodgy’ or a budding ‘Colin West,’ but he must have had a small liking for smacking girls’ botties. And let’s be honest had you or I been in his position at that time, would we not have done similar? The playful tap that he would give girls makes me wonder. But HEY GOOD ON HIM!!! LOL
It seems Grove Park School is not around now, although my search on ‘Schoolguide.co.uk’ was brief. There is a pre-school and a primary school of that name. Perhaps it merged? (A.L is likely to find more out more than I).
Regarding SCP in Bromley, I checked my STOPP publications. It seems Bromley is/ or was classified as a London Borough at the time of the STOPP book,’ A Guide to LEA’s Punishment Regulations.’ (1982). Now then, now then, it seems at that time, and I assume it was the same during your first wife’s and Saint’s time, Bromley never had any SCP guidelines. Thus it was the schools who decided upon their SCP regulations. Mmmmm. It says this, quote:

‘London Borough of Bromley.
Does the LEA have CP regulations
No. CP is at the discretion of the headteacher’.
Thus, teachers whacking girls’ bottoms with slippers could have been quite apparent up until the ban.
Then I checked another STOPP publication from 1983, ‘The Violent 81%.’ This lists individual school’s SCP policies. As I say, on checking Bromley, Grove Park School is not listed. But STOPP were quite critical of Bromley. For 14 out of 17 secondary schools used CP. Yet, most failed to mention this in their prospectuses. It made Bromley one of the worst offenders in this category, according to STOPP.
Regarding Kent LEA, see a photo image of their guidelines –up to 1982. The regulations were revised in 1977. Quite interesting, too. Kent has come up in conversations her many a time before.
Thank you again, Sir John 2
Paul.

Hi Paul, Thank you for your welcome I actually contributed to the forum several years ago as Sir John……Another Lurker will verify.this.  We had some discussion at the time as to who was most senior .Sadly I later had problems accessing the forum and when I did rejoin as Sir John 2 a whle back I had problems with posts being deleted with no explanation. One such post was almost identical to my original post in this thread  so I was a little surprised. I thought I would try again when the format of the forum changed and so far no problems.

Thanks for the research . I am actually aware that during 1960/1970 there was concern at ILEA (it was then part of the  G L C )  about punishment statistics and the proper maintaining of punishment books.Head teachers were very much I understand A law until themselves who wanted to do things their way.

As regards your query . I do not know what Saints was slippered for. It’s likely she probably could not remember herslf  when the story was related to me. She was probably  15 years of age . If you want to be more precise her b day was in January and the absence of tights indicates it was probably summer. .
I recollect being told that 4 whacks was usual .Best I can do  .I cannot confirm her bottom was facing the class . Probably more likely she was side on.

You were absolutely spot on when you described Saints as a Live wire. They could probably make a film about her.

She  definitely got in more trouble at school than my wife and might have been unkindly described as scatter brained when young. Sadly she got off to a bad start after leaving school with an unwanted pregnancy and a shot gun wedding. Due to complications the child was never born which was probably the best thing thing that could have happened. Her marriage was far from sucessful and when she stayed with us she was very depressed. Luckiy she found her old self again and back packed to India .She then became a Air Hostess and later ,married a Pilot  who took early retirement. He was a keen amateur yachtsman and they spent most of the time cruising around the Med on their 50ft sailing yacht.   Even though I had seperated amicably from my first wife in 1985 I loosely kept in touch with Saints  and in 2009 my second wife and I were invited to spend 2 weeks sailing around the Greek Islands with her and her husband.  Definitely one of the highlights of my life.

They later sailed across  the Atlantic more than once and the last I heard they were heading for the Pacific. Sadly have now lost contact.

Hope this is not too much information but I do like it when things work out for people after a bad start.

Hello, members,
It’s Paul:
Now, as ‘Sir John 2’ was talking about girls getting the slipper at school, a little snippet here from
STOPP’s  ‘Britain’s Violent Teachers.’
(See enclosed attachment).

Here it tells of a girl slippered at a private school for wearing unsuitable earrings to school.
Do you think the school is in the wrong? If I’m honest, I think it should have been dealt with differently. Sadly no date, nor the name of the school.
Love to hear your thoughts
*****
Thank you, ‘Sir John 2’ for your interesting information regarding Wendy (Saints). Not happy days for her after she left school, with a failed marriage and the loss of her unborn baby. Very sad. Looks like she dealt with it well. To give her credit she bounced back and years later, larger than life, and sailed the Med in her pilot husband’s yacht. Sounds like a character and I can imagine that she took the possible four whacks well as a fiesty 15 year old.
would you say she was a pretty girl, ‘Sir John?’
We need many more accounts such as the one you submitted
An excellent read!
Thank you for sharing it with us..
Paul.

Paul… Saints was 19 when I first met her and probably not then at her best due to her “forced” teenage marriage to an unsuitable partner whom she had recently left.. However I am pretty sure she was quite cute and leggy when younger. I can confirm , and I’m sure this will interest you , that she had a nice well formed bottom. !!You will probably be even more interested to learn that I can also confirm it responded nicely when given a slap!!!. After her hippy period she became quite a looker and had some wealthy male companions .At the age of 51( when I last saw her 10 years ago in Greece), she still had a very trim slim figure that looked good in a bikini. I now exercise my right not to disclose any more details or information regarding our friendship.

I will however give a small further piece of irrelevant information which I think may be of limited interest. One of Saints’ friends at school was a boy called Peter Hewitt . He was apparently very popular, a great laugh and a gifted mimic. He later achieved some success as an actor in television playing the role of Joey in the popular sit com Bread. I think we have to assume that Peter was probably one of those who felt Excalibir. .

As regards your press release this sounds like typical STOPP twonk that they regularly turned out to give their movement “ammunition” . I am not saying that the STOPP movement was wrong in any way. Their intentions were very good and they had to promote their movement in every way possible even if it meant sometimes distorting or exaggerating facts. They would have got the result they wanted anyway. CP in schools was definitely on the wane in the 1970s as younger modern thinking teachers came into the profession. The caning of girls was prohibited in many schools from as early as the 50s and this prohibition started to be extended to boys in 1960 .

The report itself is pure hearsay not even attributed to the girl’s parents and if the head is that bad why was the “reporting” parent not removing her son from the school.

Also I find that the allegation that her jewellery was objected to for being “too sharp” a bit dubious. Many schools prohibited ,probably with good reason, girls wearing any jewellery other than basic ear piercings in the form of small rings or studs which need to remain in. To differentiate in any more detail would probably be an administrative nightmare.

As regards the slippering ,I have a fair bit of knowledge regarding School CP in the UK and I strongly believe that the majority of slipperings given (especially to girls) were relatively mild causing at most a few grimaces as whacks landed and some times being almost token and jocular, causing the recipient to grin. If indeed the girl did cry I suspect this might have been not because of the ferocity of the slippering but because she was very very upset at having been picked upon unfairly. She probably had very good grounds to feel this way. If, as is inferred, this was the first time the school had communicated the disapproval of her jewellery the way she was treated was inexcusable and warranted further explanation from the head teacher. A warning with perhaps a temporary confiscation of the offending items (I assume they could be removed) should have been more than adequate.

Hello, Sor John,

It’s Paul:

I have just had another read of your Wendy (‘Saints’) submissions. I thoroughly enjoyed what you have told us.

As you point out, the majority of physical punishment on girls was probably mild and just a token warning. But some girls probably got caught up in the emotion of it, perhaps feeling embarrassed, especially if it was administered by a male teacher. And perhaps it was that, especially if it was given in front of a mixed class, that brought about the tears. Tears, maybe, of pure embarrassment.

It’s been discussed on this thread before that SCP declined during the 1970’s, but I’m not entirely sure of that. It’s quite apparent that the amount of SCP, including that of girls, had a bit of an upsurge during the 1980’s, up until the ban. If one looks at the Friends Reunited posts, quite a lot of girls got the slipper during that decade. A last hurrah???
I think I’d conclude that, although I’m surprised, I believe that there was much more SCP on girls than I originally thought; that is before the days when STOPP publications, the Net, Facebook and Friends Reunited got me thinking. But the downside of that is, it was not given in the way I hoped it would be.

It’s interesting that you say you have a fair bit of knowledge regarding SCP in schools, and in particular, on girls.
Again I thank you for sharing your memories of Wendy (‘Saints’).
Best wishes, Sir John!!!
Paul