The Two Extremes of SCP in English Schools

Hello, members,

It’s Paul:

I hope I find you well.

Here we have the two extremes of SCP (See attachments):

1.   The taking of one stroke of the cane out of context.

2. And the other extreme of caning exceeding the boundary of acceptability and reasonable punishment.

The first example is an incident where I feel the physical punishment has been taken out of perspective. The main antagonist is STOPP. Nothing unusual there. Look how STOPP describe a stroke of the cane. ‘Lash’ is the word used. This, I feel, is totally over the top. Perhaps we have members who might not agree with my thinking and that is the beauty of the debate we enjoy here.

Please have a read of the STOPP report, sent to them, it seems, in 1980/81 and featured in ‘Britain’s Violent Teachers’ (1982).

So, the boy was given this one ‘lash’ of the cane for unacceptable behaviour. His collective misdemeanours were as follows:

‘Unruly behaviour in class.’ For this, a detention was imposed. However, the boy failed to turn up for detention on four occasions. Hence, he was given the one ‘lash’ of the cane. Of course the boy’s mother was not happy and said the result of the stroke caused a mark and bruises.

Two questions regarding the boy’s mother:
1. What did she expect the school to do with her son? FOUR detention no shows!! Unruly behaviour in class! Did she expect him to get a sweetie and a well done? SCP was allowed in those days and apart from suspension what other route could the school have taken? I do accept that, maybe, if the boy was a difficult pupil, the school might have been wiser calling in his parents at the point of him missing the first detention. Hopefully the mother would have agreed that he needed to do the detention. If the boy had behavioural issues then the pastoral head should have been present at the meeting. But the report offers no suggestion of that. So for me, one stroke of the cane was fair.

2 The Marks. The cane does leave its mark! The renowned double tramline of fiery red. What did the mother expect? And, again, I do question the exaggeration.

Members: what do you think?
*****
Now we discuss the other extreme. That is, over the top punishment. I do apologise for the page curving away and thus, some of the text is unclear (‘On the backside’ in blurred at para 54. ‘Leg injury’‘ is blurred on Para 54.   ‘A cut on his leg of four inches long on his mid-calf’ Para 54 ‘A stroke’ Para 54. ‘During his time at the school’ End of Para 54.
Para 55; ‘bruising on his backside.’
My apologies!

This report is divided down into two photographed pages, followed by a final paragraph on a Word doc

Reading the report answers, in some ways, why SCP was abolished. Other than the ‘Derek Slade’ incident and a couple of others, I haven’t read anything as bad as this. The teacher involved, a Mr. Sharpe (Name changed…….to protect the innocent??????! LOL) should have surely been sacked. I do accept that we all know the repute of STOPP in how it used inciting language to get their agenda across, but my goodness, this case is terrible.

It seems that a ‘Mr Sharpe’ was caning boys regularly, even when one mother completed a STOPP request form for her son to be exempt from SCP. And you will see that ‘Mr Sharpe’ lashed out with his cane. Even the headmaster was astonished by the actions.

Please do have a read and add your thoughts.

Again, I apologise for the poor quality.

Best wishes,

Paul.

Hi Paul,

I will take this opportunity to comment briefly but have probably nothing to offer that has not been said before.

The effective or otherwise of corporal punishment in schools is a topic that has been discussed at great length in the past by many learned minds. Generally it is now excepted that it is not the best way to maintain discipline having regard to modern ideas and the prospect of it being harmful mentally to some children.

However moderate punishment e.g. the slipper in the classroom which was fairly prolific in U K schools for both sexes from 1955 until the early 70s was accepted without demur by most pupils as acceptable and fair and far more desirable than other punishments such as having to write an essay. To contend with those pupils who could not accept CP I think our American cousins have the right idea when they frequently offer other punishments as an alternative. Sadly this idea never caught on much in UK schools although there are examples of teachers offering a choice ,especially to female pupils. Some 15 year olds would be quite happy to bend over a teacher’s lap for a dozen with the slipper to get it over with whilst others would very much prefer to have their free time in the evening taken up writing a 400 word essay. Is/was giving pupils the choice such a bad idea?. Such arguments can of course be extended to six of the best which left tramlines for several days or a 1000 word essay.

My opinion is that the 11 year old who received one stroke of the cane got off lightly. When I was at primary school there were regular bare leg-slappings (as I’ve commented about in other threads) for both boys and girls. It really did sting and left the flesh very red but none of us complained and thought of it as normal. Also, there were no bad feelings towards the teacher giving the leg-slapping that I was aware of.

Yes, I agree with Paul that it should be expected that the cane does leave a mark. A real ‘six-of-the-best’ caning does really hurt and the pain builds from stroke to stroke so a single stroke is rather lenient.

Mr Sharpe needed further training!

i like caning

Ahhh, Hello Alice and Sir John!
Thank you both for your contributions to my thread. Appreciated.

Alice: you and me both regarding the eleven year old boy. I shall say it again: what did his mother expect the school to do when on four occasions her son failed to present himself for detention. School rules in any country in any era have to be followed otherwise there is no school. And both pupils and parents must follow them, I’m afraid! It’s no wonder this lad’s behaviour at school was poor with his mother having such an poor attitude
And let us revisit the reason why the little blighter was given a detention; unruly behaviour in class!
One darn stroke. Yes, from what has been said it was a hard one. Of course it’s going to leave a mark.

Thank you, Alice

Sir John.
Thanks.
A lot more girls got slippered well beyond the early 1970’s.Caned quite a bit, too, but almost without exception, on the hands. The amount of girls slippered during the eighties until the ban surprised me.Quite a few came up on Friends Reunited. I think it initially increased circa 75-76. Many educationalists and former heads do not necessarily associate the increase with the equality legislation during that time. Some here have suggested it came about due to the  propagation of the comprehensive system. I’m not entirely sure about that. I went to a state comprehensive and they wouldn’t have whacked a girl with a feather duster let alone a cane or a slipper! (But then to be fair, girls at my school simply didn’t commit offences that warranted SCP) Of course much of it depended on the area the LEA was in. My comprehensive school came under ILEA and schools under that LEA were among the earliest to lose the right to use SCP.

I notice there have been many members here down the years who suggest up to the 1970’s. Believe me that is not the case. FR, FB and STOPP publications show that.

…..But now I await with anticipation the comments of A.L on this thread……especially the beastly Mr Sharpe!!!

BOTTOMS UP!

Paul .

marathon8 wrote:Ahhh, Hello Alice and Sir John!
Thank you both for your contributions to my thread. Appreciated.

Alice: you and me both regarding the eleven year old boy. I shall say it again: what did his mother expect the school to do when on four occasions her son failed to present himself for detention. School rules in any country in any era have to be followed otherwise there is no school. And both pupils and parents must follow them, I’m afraid! It’s no wonder this lad’s behaviour at school was poor with his mother having such an poor attitude
And let us revisit the reason why the little blighter was given a detention; unruly behaviour in class!
One darn stroke. Yes, from what has been said it was a hard one. Of course it’s going to leave a mark.

Thank you, Alice

Sir John.
Thanks.
A lot more girls got slippered well beyond the early 1970’s.Caned quite a bit, too, but almost without exception, on the hands. The amount of girls slippered during the eighties until the ban surprised me.Quite a few came up on Friends Reunited. I think it initially increased circa 75-76. Many educationalists and former heads do not necessarily associate the increase with the equality legislation during that time. Some here have suggested it came about due to the  propagation of the comprehensive system. I’m not entirely sure about that. I went to a state comprehensive and they wouldn’t have whacked a girl with a feather duster let alone a cane or a slipper! (But then to be fair, girls at my school simply didn’t commit offences that warranted SCP) Of course much of it depended on the area the LEA was in. My comprehensive school came under ILEA and schools under that LEA were among the earliest to lose the right to use SCP.

I notice there have been many members here down the years who suggest up to the 1970’s. Believe me that is not the case. FR, FB and STOPP publications show that.

…..But now I await with anticipation the comments of A.L on this thread……especially the beastly Mr Sharpe!!!

BOTTOMS UP!

Paul .

Click to expand…

I think you’re right about the slipperings, I knew a girl down our road that was slippered at school around 78/79

Hello, 70sBoy,

It’s Paul:
Thank you for your kind response.

There you go: an example of what I said!!! So a girl where you lived got the slipper in 78/79. I’m sure most members here would love to hear more details regarding this,…including old Paul, here!!! LOL!!!

So how old was this girl at the time?
Pretty girl?
Was this a state comprehensive or another type of school?
Was it the same school you attended?
What had she done wrong to deserve the slipper?
Who gave it to her?
How many whacks?
And where: hand or bottom?

Maybe you don’t know any of the above and she just made a passing comment to you. And maybe I’m getting a tad over-excited by this news, hence why I’m having to correct a few TYPOS! LOL! Maybe I ought to be called ‘Panting-Paul!’ LOL!

I assume with your username here you attended secondary school during the 1970s? I left school in 1971. Thus, I’m a bit older than you.

Looking forward to hearing from you, and again, I say thank you.
Best wishes,
Paul

marathon8:

……as the years progressed, more and more parents would have opted out and eventually there would have been a fraction of the nation’s pupils allowed to be whacked.

I’m sure you’re familiar with THIS news story which suggests strong support for scp by nearly half the parents in the poll?