ON BBC TV TODAY SHORT NOTICE I KNOW

Hello, Members:
It’s Paul:

Scrolling through my TV channels just now, I spotted something that could potentially be good…………….

On BBC-2 today (Saturday) at 4.15pm, is a new series called, ‘Back In Time for School.’ Today is the first of eight programmes.
The first episode sees five pupils and some teachers, go back in time to a Victorian school. I’m assuming the programme series will journey through the decades during the eight shows.

Now come on, come on. It, surely, will be an absolute miracle (Or a travesty?) if SCP Is not shown, or at least mentioned!!!!

I hope enough members see this thread in time to watch it!!!  If not, I guess you can get in on ‘Catch Up.’

I’m recording it as I’m busy this afternoon.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best wishes,

Paul

Thanks for that Paul!

I’m delighted to see another UK person here. The Forum has seemed to be very much US orientated of recent. Good to hear from US people but even better to have a good mix worldwide.

Chris

as a yank i always thought this was a primarily british focused forum

dane wrote:as a yank i always thought this was a primarily british focused forum

I think the focus here varies. There has been a fair amount concerning the paddle on here of recent. Paddles were almost unknown in the UK. True that table tennis (ping pong) bats were sometimes used in schools and by some parents but that’s about all.

Hiya Chris (Six of the Best).
Thank you.
I saw the first edition of  ‘Back In Time for School.’ today.

Am I disappointed? It all depends on what one is seeking from it, but, I didn’t think it was as good as ‘That’ll Teach ’em.’

I think there was too much light heartedness and the coming out of character, to pause and compare life then with now, rather than being part of the era the school was set in. But coming from a historical angle, it was quite interesting. For example, I never knew girls in 1895 were doing science with boys. I think it was said that at that time, only 3% went to school, before it increased a few years later. Even then, children were doing up to six hours a day working in jobs. Soon after Queen Victoria’s death, during the early Edwardian era, girls were taken out of classes with boys and the teaching of science for girls was replaced with needlework and wifery skills. It was quite funny to see today’s teenage girls trying to sow. I believe even I would be better than that! But then again, how sows nowadays?     ‘

Regarding SCP, there was only one reference to caning, and that came during the first five minutes when a female teacher picked up a cane in the Victorian class. It was the teachers, who played the part of Victorian teachers, who were more horfield by it than the pupils. They all said they could never beat a child.

The next episode id Thursday, BBC-2, at 8pm. This one covers the two world wars

Any thoughts? I conclude, that, yes, it was worth a watch, but I don’t think we are going to see any cane swishing!!!.

I do hope A.L saw this programme.

Thank you, Chris.

Hello Paul,

I neither have any broadcast TV connections nor watch TV other than news programs and programs specific to my interests that I see at a friend’s house.   The ‘interests’ recorded for me do not include SCP, it’s simply not the sort of thing you ask people to record for you!  And that is precisely why I doubt there will be much about SCP in the series, other than perhaps a bit about how terrible things were for kids in schools the distant past such as the Victorian era.  That’s long enough ago for even the most avid devotee of political correctness not to be too offended

SCP is simply not politically correct, not something you talk about, or depict in the media with any semblance of reality.  If it is depicted it has to be something terrible, sadistic and unusual, not simply a part of school life as it was in the UK, and indeed elsewhere, for many of us with a few years under our belts.

Look at the various series of That’ll Teach ‘Em on UK TV.  More references here than you can shake a stick at, but this thread and this thread will do for starters.

To sum up the fiasco regarding SCP in those series a quote from contributor Simon who originated   the first of those threads will serve very well:

An article in the Radio Times 14-20 August {2004}  begins:

“Last year, That’ll Teach ‘Em recreated a 1950s grammar school, home to the educational elite who had passed the 11-plus exam, and watched as today’s teenagers adapted to its teaching methods and curriculum. Now the series returns, re-creating a 1960s secondary modern, where 70 per cent of pupils who’d failed the 11-plus spent their days.”

At the end of the page are short paragraphs on Uniform, Studies, Teaching, Exams and the following:

“Discipline:

Corporal punishment was used, involving the cane or a ruler across the hand (not in TTE, obviously). Pupils also could be separated from their classmates for disruptive behaviour.”

Couldn’t the BBC find amongst its many hacks one who could get the facts right?

Click to expand…

It is certainly fair to blame whoever wrote the Radio Times article for their lack of knowledge or for making a deliberate misstatement.  However the lack of SCP in the various series was doubtless due to an awareness of overall public susceptibilities and the fact that you simply can’t go inflicting pain on kids for entertainment purposes in the UK these days.  Ken Loach with ‘Kes’ was possibly the last producer to get away with that – allegedly.

So despite the fact that at least one of the series was heavily publicised by a picture of a male in an academic gown flexing a cane, the nearest thing to corporal punishment I recall (I did see a bit of TV in those days) was a boy and a girl made to swim several lengths of an outdoor swimming pool in the early morning for some misdemeanor,  supervised by a teacher and starting from opposite ends to inhibit any opportunity for social interaction.

I’ll be interested to see if I’m right about the new series.  Perhaps someone will be kind enough to report back.

Another_Lurker wrote:Hello six of the best,

I’m surprised that you think this is primarily a US based Forum, to the extent that you were delighted to see another UK person contributing.  Although the Forum is hosted on a hosting system owned by US personnel (and I think operated in the US) as far as I’m aware the Forum Management is British.  Their sense of humour most certainly suggests that anyway!

Further I’d say the majority of the contributors are British, though there is world wide representation, particularly from British influenced countries  I think you may possibly be confused by the fact that probably the two most prolific contributors are American Way who is indeed American, and myself, British but not in the least insular and prepared to discuss (S)CP  anywhere, anytime, past present or future!

It has to be said that SCP has been gone from the UK for some time now.  Most of what can be written about SCP here has already been recorded in this Forum.  Very little new can be said.  Repeating personal experiences and commenting on the (sometimes repeated) personal experiences of others in the UK keeps things ticking over, but can only take us so far.

However there’s a big world out there, and in some parts of it SCP is still alive and well, or at least a great deal more recent than it is here.  In addition over the years the Forum has come to encompass domestic CP and judicial CP.   Not much of the former and none of the latter still extant in the UK.  However in parts of the rest of the world these are still happening and as far as I’m concerned I’m quite happy to see them discussed here and  to participate in discussion of them.  Other contributors seem to have shared this view at various times.

Click to expand…

A bit of confusion perhaps, my comment was merely that most of the usual UK contributors here were in what seems to be in the usual post  Christmas/ pre New Year hiatus.  Our American friends seem to have seemed to survive the period somewhat better!

I tried not to keep repeating my own experiences or at least try to add a new twist to them. I have purposefully tried not to graphically describe my own experiences of the school cane and plimsoll too often. They were all much like many others have already described here.

As you say UK SCP is something of the past now, remembered personally by very few under about 45 now. The American views and details are far more current.

Sorry if my comments were a bit misleading.

Hello six of the best,

I think in the US there is rather more of a work ethic than there is here.  I’ve been told that only 2 weeks paid holiday per year is not uncommon in job conditions  there.  As far as I know  they don’t have an almost nationwide shut down between Christmas and the New Year.  Well not unless President and Congress are at each others’ throats and they can’t get the budget passed! 

I wouldn’t worry about repeating your own SCP experiences after a decent interval.  Some here certainly don’t concern themselves about it, including me.  After all there’s bound to be at least one or two recent arrivals at the Forum who haven’t heard it before.  What’s a decent interval?  Well I try to leave at least a week!  

i’ve never had a paid holiday in my life

Hello dane,

Thank you for your comment. It certainly tallies with what I have been told, though as I noted I understand a small amount of paid leave is also not uncommon in the US.  Could you confirm if this is the case please?

It will probably not amuse you if I say that in my last job I started on 4 weeks paid leave a year and built up to 6 weeks (effectively 30 days) after 5 years.  Not that I could ever take it all.  When I retired at the beginning of September I was paid until the end of the year to cover accrued annual leave not taken.  I had been in a position to negotiate unlimited accrual of scheduled  leave cancelled at the employer’s request. Not everyone would be so fortunate.

In addition to generally more generous employment based paid annual leave than in the US, most people over here get an extra 8 days a year of paid  national holidays in England and Wales, 9 days in Scotland and 10 in Northern Ireland.   You can see why I consider there is more of a work ethic in the US.  And of course your financial safety net when work cannot be found is considerably less generous than ours.

Employers over here do not generally provide heath insurance benefits, whereas I understand many do in the US,  However the state here provides an adequate free health system.

Perhaps the phrase paid holiday leave is more appropriate. A paid holiday might be misconstrued as a holiday itself being paid for by the employer!

I have friends/relatives working in the US and can confirm that they receive far less paid holiday leave than most do in the UK. That said I am told that many in the US are far better paid than their counterparts in the UK.

UK Bank Holidays vary throughout the UK. I fail to understand why St. Andrew and St. Patrick appear to be more important than St. George and St. David.

i think my wife has 3 weeks of paid leave with some  but not much holiday time on top of that, i just have never worked a job that provides that… i did have 10 days off this year for vacation but it was unpaid and about three weeks of lay off that i got a week of unemployment for… i think that was my fault, i somehow didn’t file correctly for a second week and figured it was far to difficult to figure it out once i was back working

One of the male teachers on the programme held a cane and said “I’m uncomfortable just holding it”.           Honestly! He needs to get out more. Apparently in real life he’s  a drama teacher so perhaps he’s given to    hyperbole.

 I can understand his comment. The relationship between pupils and teachers in the past was much different, a ‘them and us’ situation. I think it was much the same in some families in the past too, particularly in larger families.

The generation gap was far greater 40 or 50 years ago. The programme was about 1895 schooling, a massive generation gap existed back then. I was a bit bemused how the teachers in the programme talked of caning as it was only a Victorian thing, it was still a permitted punishment in many UK state schools up to 1987 and even later in UK private schools

Hello six of the best,

In your contribution #17 above you wrote:

 I was a bit bemused how the teachers in the programme talked of caning as it was only a Victorian thing

No need for bemusement! 

As I wrote in post #6 above:

And that is precisely why I doubt there will be much about SCP in the series, other than perhaps a bit about how terrible things were for kids in schools the distant past such as the Victorian era.  That’s long enough ago for even the most avid devotee of political correctness not to be too offended

The current BBC is almost ludicrously politically correct and many  modern school teachers likewise.  The combination of the two makes it very unlikely that the series would countenance any discussion of SCP post the Victorian era.

Hi, members,
Part two of   ‘Back In Time for School.’ is on tonight. BBC 2 8.00pm-9.00pm
It’s schooling through the war year.. Still worth a watch. Anybody up for it?
I’ll feature A.L in his short trousers, me in my cap, WWT and ‘Six of the Best’ in their blazers

Looking forward to it.

Paul

Hello Paul,

Regarding A_L in his short trousers per your contribution #19 above, I can virtually guarantee that you will not see him posed as in pictures  2B thru’ 2F in my picture grid in the post  here. 

marathon8 wrote:Hi, members,
Part two of   ‘Back In Time for School.’ is on tonight. BBC 2 8.00pm-9.00pm
It’s schooling through the war years.. Still worth a watch. Anybody up for it?
I’ll feature A.L in his short trousers, me in my cap, WWT and ‘Six of the Best’ in their blazers

Looking forward to it.

Paul

I’m a ‘baby-boomer’, born in 1947 so I’m afraid I don’t qualify.

WWT wrote:I’m a ‘baby-boomer’, born in 1947 so I’m afraid I don’t qualify.

Me too, 1946 for me!

Thus, I’m a baby…born in 1955
I watched the second part of ‘Back in Time for School.’ I felt it gave a good insight into life at British schools between the two world wars.
I did chuckle when the cod liver oil came out. And boiled mutton, cabbage and potatoes
Oh, and the word ‘cane’ did crop up just once…….
Paul

I’ve not watched it yet. So the BBC were brave enough to include the word ‘cane’ once.

Off on a bit of a tangent, when did UK schools start using a plimsoll for CP? It was certainly well established by the mid 1950s. It was usually referred to as the ‘slipper’. However it was very different to what many parents used at home but in school it was used across the seat of a boy’s trousers

Hello Paul,

I too was not at school during WW2, having been born in 1942.  I have some memories of wartime events as a very young child, but they do not include the use of the cane in schools as I didn’t start school until 1947.

However thanks to the writings here of Headmaster George, now alas probably no longer with us, as he would be well past his century, we know something, allegedly, of wartime events in a C of E school near a town with a church with a twisted spire in a mining area not a thousand miles from me.

As well as sometimes being caned on the hands, a great many boys were caned and slippered on the bare, so we were told.  This was because it was fairer to the boys that way, as the damage could be seen and excess avoided.  Also apparently some of them anyway lacked underpants.  Times were hard!

I would link George’s splendid essays on the subject but alas the transition to Tapatalk does not seem to have treated them kindly.  Some I cannot locate at all, and others which I recall as part of one thread are now scattered far and asunder.

Never mind, for true enthusiasts of the genre  a determined search for George’s work will find more accounts of bare bottom beating of boys than you can shake a stick at, or indeed a cane! 

Well I’ve now watched the whole programme.

My first thoughts:

Everyone are so very friendly, teachers and pupils. When I started senior school in the 1950s there was positively a ‘them and us’ feeling. We were there to behave and learn. If we didn’t we’d be punish in some way. That’s not to say we lived in fear, some teachers were very likeable and friendly. Surely schools in the 1920s/30s were much the same.

I’m not sure that anyone particularly boys and men really wore hats indoors like in the programme. Certainly we lads had to wear school caps all the time when we were outside; to and from school and in the playground, everywhere. I’m sure it was much the same for girls.

The afternoon nap for seniors, did that really happen in normal schools? There were ‘open air’ schools from around that time right up to the 1950s. I think this related to health problems of that era, TB and illnesses from industrial pollution in cities.
.
From an informative point of view the programme was good. The no married women policy; I knew of this but never realised that the existing married female teachers were made to leave like that.

Of course for the programme to work using modern day real life youngsters not actors it has to have an element of fun.

What do others think about the programme?