Hello john_smage,

Your latest post with the detail regarding the duties of the Captains of Parishes is most interesting.   When you mention ‘the anti-birching group’ are you indicating that this was an organisation of Manx citizens please?  If so I would have thought that, as six of the best notes, it would have been considered highly disrespectful to modify the triskeles at all, let alone by adding the three arms and the birches!  Incidentally I don’t think that is three birches held by each arm as bripuk suggested, but a single birch in each hand reminiscent of the formidable hazel rod birches (type 1  in your contribution #935?) used for older offenders in later years.

Several excellent pictures illustrating that type of birch are found on the Magnum Photos site here.  Unfortunately it is necessary to click the thumbnails and then click yet another thumbnail to see the full size pictures.  The photographs mainly show police officers holding the birch, but in one case Mrs Peggy Irving, who seems to have been a leading pro-birching campaigner at the time of the 1970s European Court of Human Rights case is seen cradling what may or may not be a genuine judicial birch in her garden.

Mrs Irving, together with the birch, is seen disporting with other presumably pro-birching ladies in a video clip entitled ‘a short sharp shock’ on the BBC website here.  In my experience at least this video is best started by clicking the ‘play’ button on the video thumbnail on the page I’ve linked.  I originally came across it via a link direct to the video page but, at least with my favoured browser, I could discover no way to make the video actually play on that page.  In the video the ladies give a demonstration of birching.  I suspect that it may not be completely authentic!  

Somewhere I came across speculation that females were sometimes present at birchings in the person of female doctors.  Mrs Irving gives the impression that she’d very much like to have been present as the person wielding the birch!  Regardless of who was present, being bent over with your bottom bared while a muscular policeman belaboured it with one of those hazel rod birches would definitely not have been a fun experience.

There is already much on birching in this Forum.  A thread with some interesting photographs started by contributor MadSpank is to be found here.

Reference 951
Hello Al,    Yes the Anti and Pro birching groups were made up of Manx Citizens and at this time when the debate was going on it was about 50/50% of the adult population   When the Capt. of the parish called a meeting it was to packed houses and often ended up in a slanging match at at times the local policeman had to calm things down often The Capt. called a halt to the meeting for 30 mins for tempers to calm and the Ladies of the WVS to serve tea ( I jest not)  Mostly one or more MHK’s attended the meet and they would IF they could get a word in  Give the Governments official point view  also MHKs not in government would be asked to come as well to give their point of view,  At the end of the meeting a vote was called to give the parish’s point of View on the subject of birching to take back to Tynwald.    One point if any of the 12 voters who requested the meeting  (unless they had a medical certificate) did not turn up they would be sent a bill for pro rata the cost of of the meeting Hall.
NB. side note =  Women had the vote on the Isle of Man long before the UK let them have the vote .     Boys and girls of 16 (SIXTEEN) can vote in local and national  IoM elections.    Historic Note  Captain Bligh  was the Customs officer in Douglas before HMS Bounty he was friends with Fletcher Christian  and Thomas Hayward age 11 at that time..   William Christian joined the American Revolution Forces in 1775/6.  The IOM brought out postage stamps for the Bounty and  in memory of William Christian , Must close now will ans the rest of _951 when I can.     John Smage

Well we have certainly learnt more about the Isle of Man in last few days. I think we are all clear now that the publication was not one from the Manx government. Most official documents concerning judicial or school CP didn’t generally go into that much detail. I was surprised to read of mention of girls being sentenced by Manx courts to a slippering. Whether this was ever carried out we aren’t informed.
I remember the case of the four Liverpool lads who were birched in 1965. I was still in the upper sixth form then. The report certainly suggested that a Manx birching was very different a senior boys school six of the best in the mainland UK of that era.
We are told that 50% of the Manx adult population thoroughly approved of courts ‘awarding’ birchings, canings and even slipperings for girls. That leads me to believe that IOM schools probably used SCP quite often back then too.
With all this judicial and school CP I do wonder if Manx parents used similar methods to their own youngsters at home back then. We are talking of over 50 years ago now. Almost another world back then!

Reference   951
Somewhere I came across speculation that females were sometimes present at birching in the person of female doctors.  Mrs Irving gives the impression that she’d very much like to have been present as the person wielding the birch!
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First AL women on the Isle of Man had the vote in elections long before the UK
Slave’s were abolished on the Isle of Man long before the UK.

I believe you are correct AL  women doctors with and a SRN could be present and were at the birching on the IOM ,   It was more likely they would be present of the punishment or younger children say from 10-12/13 Quite often  the doctor would refuse permission on medical grounds for a child to be caned .     Who could be present  It was somehow like this  The boy’s parents , The male/female doctor perhaps with a SRN as well an independent male or female witness, and a Lawyer as well as the policeman doing the birching /canning etc.
Hope you find the info interesting  A/L

Hello john_smage,

Thank you.  A vast amount of useful links, some of them new to me.  I certainly do think that not all judicial CP on the Isle of Man was carried out strictly in accordance with the various rules and regulations governing it at different times.  The practice of taking those convicted and sentenced to the birch straight from dock to birching room is an instance, mentioned in various places and confirmed by a policeman who actually wielded the birch in the interview document you link.  An appeal against the sentence of the birch was allowed, but presumably it wasn’t anyone’s responsibility to check that the offender knew this.  The offender’s right in some cases to have a parent present during their birching seems to have had very similar loopholes

The UK official secrets act is certainly a very formidable thing.  In fact strictly those who’ve signed it aren’t allowed to tell you that, and as for me telling you what I’m not allowed to tell you about, let alone about the thing itself ……………..  But I am surprised that details of canings and slipperings should be sealed for 200 years under the official secrets act whereas details of birchings seem to be accessible to those with the patience and necessary contacts.  However, as many say in a variety of locations, the Isle of Man is a peculiar place and it’s not what you know but who you know that counts.

Ref. 958.
Yes I agree with you,  well of course what was supposed to happen and what did happen  was two different things as you say , lots of loopholes But it was different times then,  no large numbers of reporters and tv reporters as it is now.   In court cases the late Mona Douglas or the late Sidney Boulton were the only reporters at a court case and often no reporters at all. They were only two papers then the Courier based in Water St. Ramsey and the Examiner based in Douglas.  And they relied on
Gov. adverts etc so they would be reluctant print stories against the police or the goverment then.

In Youth Court cases most or all of them were held in camera with no reporters allowed as far as I know
As far as I know to consisted then of three magistrates ,  the shorthand record keeper,  a police officer who acted as lawyer for the police at the Rank of Sargent  a defence lawyer mostly one appointed by the court to defend the the young person.  The young person’s parents were summoned to attend as well, for a mega series case a jury of seven persons could be sworn in and could make recommendations to the court.
Cases of children under 14 or 15, court  proceedings  could not NOT be reported and not all cases resulted in the slipper or cane a few were found not guilty and other sorts of punishments given,  One boy I knew (no names) who hoaxed the Lifeboat was sentenced to do work at the Lifeboat station every Saturday for a few months as he was age 11 he was rescued from that by a local scout leader to took him in the scout group the Lifeboat people and the head of the Y/C were only two pleased to grant permission.  since he was still at Albert road School he did get the slipper at school for hoaxing the lifeboat, his mum said he should get the slipper as well.  He never as far as I know got into trouble again.

As I said before as far as I know child Y/C cases were SEALED by the court not to be opened for about 200 years I think the USA has a similar thing for children as well.