Hello I, Researcher,

More detailed queries on your latest listings I fear.  My apologies.  I know you’ve got more than enough on trying to complete your monumental task, but curiosity gets the better of me.

In your contribution #69 above Lostock (Secondary) in Stretford seems a little strange.  Lots of girls subjected to SCP, usually the cane, but occasionally the slipper.  However other than one instance, a wooden spoon administered across the legs by a female teacher, all the corporal punishments listed were by male teachers.  I presume this was a mixed school.  Were there any indications that female teachers there for the most part eschewed SCP, leaving such punishments to their male colleagues?  Or were a small group of SCP inclined  male teachers responsible for the ‘hit’ list in a school which generally avoided SCP?

And then at Moorside (Secondary) in Swinton we have that very rare find, a girl  allegedly caned in front of the whole school:

Megan – b1953 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by female teacher (in front of the school) 1964 to 1968

Quite unusual that, I think.  I recall the case of the girl allegedly so caned on the bottom at the Derwent School, Derby sometimes quoted here over the years via an article in the local media.  But subjecting young ladies, with susceptibilities generally reckoned more delicate than those of their rough male schoolmates, to the ordeal of being caned in front of the whole school seems to have been largely avoided in England within living memory.

Was Moorside a mixed school?  Were any details given of the incident such as infraction concerned, MO of the punishment etc?  Sorry to trouble you, but I am desperately striving to qualify for my earnest seeker after the truth about the corporal punishment of schoolgirls badge before I or this Forum or both retire into oblivion!

Hello Another_Lurker,

Please allow me to be of some assistance in your quest for your earnest seeker after the truth badge.

I can confirm that for the majority of the time period of interest that Lostock Secondary was a mixed school with the boys and girls merging in the early 1970s.  Furthermore, nearly all the evidence from the 3 public facebook groups here, here and here suggests that from as early as possibly 1966 to as recent as possibly 1984 that girls and boys were caned and occasionally slippered by male teachers.  The exception for this is a second-hand account from a lady named Hazel (born about 1961) who recalled:

‘What know one has men the wooden spoon a harmless kitchen untensil. One day at lostock 1974-5 Miss Chapelow was giving a demonstraton on cake making beating the mixture etc i started to mimic her. Afeter she called me over and was going to hit back of my legs with the wooden spoon everytime she did jumped forward and she kept missing. My friend Val went past laughing Miss Chapelow swund roung round and cught me mate on her thigh it came up black and blue.’

The male teachers who administered the cane for this time period included headmasters Mr Wood and former England football player Mr Warren Bradley, as well as at least 5 more male teachers are also mentioned..  It is worth noting that although I have stated ‘unspecified anatomy’ for several of the account my gut-feeling is that it was applied across the hand.  However, I did encounter one account from a lady named Tracey who remembered:

‘i had the cane off mr gibbs,and the pump on the arse off mr,shaw,or dodsworth the games teachers,for giving miss lane cheek’

Why it appears that female teachers didn’t administer the cane to female pupils at Lostock I do not know.  Or perhaps they did, and no one has posted about it? Maybe it was a high ratio of male to female teachers? Possibly most of the female teachers had more liberal approaches to discipline?  At some point I might ask the question in one of the groups and see what the response is.

Moorside High School was also a mixed school and this is supported by Wikipedia. In reference to Megan’s caning she stated:

‘Got the cane infront of assembly off miss Clayton for putting a girls head down the toilet lol.’

Perhaps in the case the punishment was justified.  Furthermore, although Megan doesn’t state which part of her anatomy was punished, I think in all likelihood it was the hand.  Interestingly, there are other accounts of Miss Clayton using the strap, ruler and slipper. Consequently, she is only the second teacher I have encountered to utilize 4 separate implements and thereby earning a full-house. The latter implement mentioned was also a catalyst to trigger some further questioning from fellow facebook seeker of the truth Kirsty Smith who asked:

‘how did miss clayton give you the slipper’

prompting the response:

‘across your hand’

Therefore, I would say it was a safe bet that the cane, ruler and strap were administered in a similar manner.

In regard to the alleged caning on the bottom of a girl in assembly at Derwent School, as well as the article listed here.  My predecessor Pontifex listed a supporting secondary account:

‘I can recall one poor girl when we were all in assembly. Her name was called out and she had to go up on to the stage as she had done something bad. She got the cane on her bottom in front of the whole school.’
Tracy Sadler 2/22/2002

If the date is accurate then I’m wondering if it was originally a FRU account is it predates facebook.

Hello I, Researcher.

Thank you for your usual helpful and comprehensive response to my queries in #71 above.

The information regarding Lostock Secondary School, Stretford is most interesting.  Although atypical in that she was slippered on the bottom the reference from Tracey that you quote:

i had the cane off mr gibbs,and the pump on the arse off mr,shaw,or dodsworth the games teachers,for giving miss lane cheek

does seem to indicate that although the infraction involved was being disrespectful to a female teacher the consequential corporal punishment was administered by a male teacher.  This may well have been the way things were done at Lostock.  Possibly the school attracted particularly refractory female pupils and the female teachers felt that having the girls dealt with by male staff would be seen as a more severe and effective penalty, as witness the almost exclusively male teacher inflicted punishments that you found mentioned on Facebook.

The case of the girl allegedly caned on the bottom in front of the whole school at the Derwent School Derby,

Derwent School Derbyshire
I can recall one poor girl when we were all in assembly. Her name was called out and she had to go up on to the stage as she had done something bad. She got the cane on her bottom in front of the whole school.
Tracy Sadler 2/22/2002

quoted in Pontifex’s massive 10 September 2011 contribution in a Facebook references thread here could not be from Facebook if the date is correct as Facebook was not started until 2004.  As you note Friends Reunited, founded in 2000, is a more likely source.

Interestingly the case had been mentioned here back in September 2008 when A Lurkologist linked an article on the Derby Evening Telegraph website which contained identical text.  In my response (you might have to refresh the page to read it because Tapatalk can’t cope with the HTML and CSS we could use at Network54)  to Pontifex‘s contribution I give more details about the article, which appeared on ‘This is Derbyshire’, the then website of the Derby Evening Telegraph newspaper, dated Monday, August 25 2008.  It was quite a lengthy article, complete with photographs of the school in the 1970s.  Subsequent comments posted did not deny or denounce the public caning.  Alas the article concerned is long gone.  I’ll see if the wayback machine can revive it if I get time, but in the context I’d doubt it.

A great disappointment if the girl caned in front of the school at Moorside High School, Swinton, listed in your #69 contribution in this thread, was caned on the hand.  What on earth is the point of assembling the whole school to witness the punishment and then not requiring the unfortunate recipient to bend over?  Have these modern schools no sense of tradition? 

And for completeness:

The reference to “Don’t cause this one to be withdrawn or deleted!” in A Lurkologist’s contribution linked above is with regard to an earlier instance when I linked a page on another site which referred to a girl severely beaten at an approved school.  The page concerned promptly disappeared off the web.  Fortunately one of our contributors had immediately visited the page on seeing my link and was able to retrieve the page contents from his browser cache and publish it here.  The conclusion was that one of the administrators of the other site must have been a reader here.  Sadly I wouldn’t have been able to do the page retrieval trick as I have caches automatically cleared as soon as I close a page.  It won’t stop the FBI tracing what I’ve been doing on the web, but it should make it a little more difficult!  

In the days before Friends Reunited and Facebook readers letters in local papers were a great source of SCP reminiscences, and very popular with editors as they tended to generate plenty of traffic.  My own local paper, the Nottingham Evening Post, was awash with them at one time, ranging from the probably true to the almost certainly complete fiction.  Back in 2003, in the very early days of this Forum 47david published a lengthy series of CP articles and letters from the Derby Evening Telegraph, beginning with material from 1991.  The thread is here.

Rather more recently corporal punishment was used in an effort to revive the rather staid and flagging Sunday edition of the Daily Telegraph.  Some readers will recall the ‘caned WRENS’ letters’, allegedly written by a short lived lady editor in an effort to spice things up a bit.

Not wanting to be LottaNonsense  # 2 but I think that the genuine accounts of female teachers caning secondary school girls on the bottom are very few and that of male teachers doing the same are vanishingly small. I DO think that lots of girls received the cane on the hand or were given the slipper (usually on the bottom) by female staff, and that particularly in P.E. the odd casual whack of a gym shoe was not unknown. I sometimes do an I,Researcher type trawl of historical sites in localities known to me but very little comes up.  If you are on certain Facebook groups there will from time to time be the question “Who got the cane at school?” or similar and a whole plethora of females will say “Me!” but with no further details supplied.

Well, well, the Wayback machine comes up trumps!  Here is the Derby Telegraph website article from Monday 25 August 2008 claiming that in the 1970s a girl was caned on the bottom on stage in front of the whole school at the Derwent School Derby, as originally linked here by A Lurkologist in September 2008 as detailed in my post #73 above.

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Hello neilmc32,

Good to see you contributing.  There is no chance of your being confused with Lotta.  I am fairly confident that I recall you doing simple arithmetic in a contribution and getting the answer right! 

I think there is merit in your comments on girls being caned on the bottom by male staff, but while I believe that this was never common within living memory I think that the incidence of it varied considerably around the UK.  It certainly appears to have been the case that the headmaster of my junior  school so caned girls in his capacity as headmaster also of the associated senior school.  However I never attended the senior school.

I certainly saw the occasional girl from the senior school waiting outside the headmaster’s office, which opened directly off the junior school playground, in circumstances where the rumour on the streets (or rather the Junior School corridors and classrooms) was that they were waiting to be caned.   I saw that they were usually clad in domestic science smocks, or overcoats in winter, which was consistent with reports that they had to change into PE gear for punitive consistency in view of the variety of clothing worn by girls in that era (there was no school uniform).  But I was obviously not a party to what happened inside the Headmaster’s office and cannot confirm reports of the actual MO of canings.

I see no reason though to doubt that they were caned on the bottom.  In those days a headmaster could certainly have ordered a boy to take down his trousers or bare his bottom for the cane with relative impunity if he thought that sartorial or other considerations merited it.  Not so a girl.  Even then any rearrangement of clothing would certainly have attracted unfavourable comment at the very least.  The device of requiring girls to change into PE gear in advance if they were to be caned avoided any need for hands on adjustment and has been reported in use at other schools.

Another reason why I think reports of bottom canings of girls are relatively rare is that delicate feminine susceptibilities, perhaps less encountered in modern young women, but certainly fairly common in the generations of women subjected to SCP, tend to inhibit revealing a punishment on the bottom.  In England, where there may be an assumption by others that corporal punishment might have been on the bottom, it is my experience that women are less likely to discuss SCP and to reveal any details if they were in receipt of it.  In Scotland, where it is common knowledge that generations of boys and girls were belted at school, but almost always on the hand, women tend to be much more open on the issue and ready to discuss both their own experiences of SCP and SCP in general.

Hello Another_Lurker,

Regarding female teachers sending female pupils to male members of staff to receive CP at Lostock, you might have identified the Modus Operandi.

When discussing a former female teacher at Lostock a lady by the name of Gail (born about 1959) recalls:

‘I got sent to Mr Woods for the cane for talking in her class, she was my form tutor’

I know its only 2 similar cases, however, I can’t recall this scenario happening too often in other schools.  I will check my database in the not too distant future.  Perhaps a ‘Female teachers sending female pupils to Male teachers for punishments’ deserves a thread of its own?  Or perhaps there already is one?

In reference to the alleged bottom caning by the headmaster at Derwent Secondary. Now, I’ve seen the same quote used multiple times I’m on the fence again.  I’ve just done a brief revisit to the Derwent School to see if any fresh evidence regarding this specific case had surfaced and unfortunately it doesn’t appear so.  However, there are a couple of new cases that I’ll add to the East Midlands thread once I’ve completed the North West, South East, South West, West Midlands, Yorkshire, Northern Ireland & Wales.

Hello neilmc32.

I think you sound like a realist and I completely share your sentiments that compared to other forms of corporal punishment bottom caning for female pupils was rare.  I too am a member of several nostalgia themed facebook groups and the subject of SCP often crops up.  I’ve also found that a lot of the answers are a simple ‘yes’ or ‘I did’.  However, just by hovering your cursor over the name will often reveal the secondary school they attended and that in turn can often lead to more information.

And finally here’s the next batch of schools from the Greater Manchester Area:

Newall Green (Secondary) – Wythenshawe

Dianne (A) – b1946– Slipper & Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher (class punishment) – 1957 to 1962
Jenny – b1948 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1959 to 1963
Ellie – b1950 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1961 to1965
Julia – b1952 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1963 to 1967
Sheila – b1954 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1965 to 1970
Barbara – b1954 – Slipper & strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teachers – 1965 to 1970
Joan (A) -,b1955 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1966 to 1970
Joan (B) – b1955 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1966 to 1970
Jacqui – b1955 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1966 to 1970
Lu – b1960 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1971 to 1976
Deborah (A) – b1960 – – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1971 to 1976
Wendy – b1961 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teachers – 1972 to 1977
Donna – b1964 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1975 to 1980
Patricia – b1964 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teachers – 1978 to 1980
Wendy b1966 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female & male teachers and hand across legs by male teacher – 1977 to 1982
Deborah (B) – b1966 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1977 to 1982
Dianne (B) – b1967 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female & male teachers – 1978 to 1983

Nicholls Ardwick (Secondary) – Manchester

Shirley – b1959 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1970 to 1975
Nicola – b1966 – Strap across legs by male teacher – 1977 to 1982

North Chadderton (Secondary) – Oldham

Trisha – b1955 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1966 to 1970
Julia – b1968 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1979 to 1985

North Salford (Secondary) – Salford

Julie – b1962 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teachers – 1973 to 1978
Tracy – b1962 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teachers 1973 to 1978
Angela – b1964 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teachers – 1975 to 1980

Parrenthorn (Secondary) – Prestwich

Tania -b1966 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1977 to 1982
Nat – b1971 – Cane across hand by female teacher – 1982 to 1987

Peel Moat (Secondary) – Stockport

Janice -b1952 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1963 to 1965
Denise – b1954 – Cane across hand by female teacher – 1965 to 1969
Elizabeth – b1957 – Cane across hand by unnamed teacher – 1968 to 197
Irah – b1959 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1970 to 1975
Dawn – b1963 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1974 to 1979
Lindsey – b 1963 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1974 to 1979
Donna – b1964 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by unnamed  teacher – 1975 to 1980
Wendy – b1964 Cane across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1975 to 1980

Plant Hill (Secondary – Blackley

Sheila – b1947 – Strap across hands by unnamed teacher – 1958 to 1962
Margaret – b1948 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1959 to 1963
Jean – b1949 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1960 to 1964
Sheila – b1951 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1962 to 1966
Barbara – b1952 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1963 to 1968
Susan – b1952  – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1963 to 1968
Lynne – b1954 – Strap across hand by male teacher – 1965 to 1969
Beverley – b1956 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1967 to 1971
Aly – b1961 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1972 to 1977
Jo – Wood b1965 – Strap across bottom by unnamed teacher – 1976 to 1982

Poundswick (Primary) – Wythenshawe

Barbara – b1953 – Hand across bottom & leg by male teacher – 1958 to 1964
Amanda -b1959 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1964 to 1970

Poundswick (Secondary) – Wythenshawe

Alison – b1961 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy (in front of school) & strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1972 to 1977
Debra -b1961 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1972 to 1977
Debbie – b1963 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1974 to 1979

Radcliffe (Secondary) – Radcliffe

Muriel – b1954 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1965 to 1970
Verna – b1955 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1966 to 1970
Dawne – b1959 – Cane across legs by male teacher – 1970 to 1975 it
Viv – b1962 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1973 to 1978
Donna – b1965 – Cane across legs by female teacher – 1976
Kathy – b1965 – Cane across hands and legs by female teacher – 1976 to 1981
Sam – b1966 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy by male teacher – 1977 to 1982
Tracy – b1966 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teachers – 1977 to 1982

Reddish Vale (Secondary) – Stockport

Nina – b1938 – Cane across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1952

Royton & Crompton (Secondary) – Oldham

Amanda (A) b1963 – Strap across hand by female teacher & slipper across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1974 to 1979
Deborah – b1965 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1976 to 1981
Karen – b1965 – Strap across hand by female teacher – 1976 to 1981
Susan – b1966 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1977 to 1982
Sue – b1967 – Strap across unspecified anatomy by unnamed teacher – 1978 to 1983
Amanda (B) – b1968 – Hand across leg by unnamed teacher – 1979 to 1984

I’ll probably complete the Greater Manchester area in 3 more batches.  Please bear with me

Hello I, Researcher,

Thank you for your comments on Lostock Secondary School, Stretford, Manchester in #76 above.  I have no reason to suppose that female teachers sending erring pupils of either sex to male teachers to be subjected to corporal punishment was common.  However I have certainly heard of it before.  I recall cases here of this happening with boys, indeed in one case the subject was quite indignant that the female teacher involved accompanied him to watch him being punished.  However somewhere or other I have encountered claims of girls being so dealt with as well.

We aspirants to the status of earnest seeker after the truth about the corporal punishment of schoolgirls are mainly speed readers, trained to zoom rapidly over acres of cane or strap across unspecified anatomy in search of an item which may offer progression further along the one true path to full enlightenment.   Thus I am sure you will not be in the least surprised to receive a query on your contribution #76 above about:

Poundswick (Secondary) – Wythenshawe

Alison – b1961 – Slipper across unspecified anatomy (in front of school) & strap across unspecified anatomy by female teacher – 1972 to 1977

We have certainly established in the past that the slipper was occasionally used on the hand.  Mostly by male teachers on boys I seem to recall, at least in the cases discussed here.  But a girl, and in front of the school?  Did Alison or anyone else give any clue as to what brought her to that sad fate and how the punishment was administered please?

Hello Another_Lurker,

In the Poundswick High School Group when discussing memories of Miss Nicholl’s slipper, Alison responds to a gentleman named Ian with the following recollection:

‘I do, you and Robert cane got me that slipper in front of the whole lower school. Pulling my tiny bunches ( pippy long stoking) you tormented me so much. I retaliated and you two got me the slipper lol funny now but not at the time lol’

Unfortunately, this statement doesn’t give too much away though my gut-feeling is leaning towards it being applied to bottom.  This is  based on the fact that Alison stated it is ‘funny now but not at the time’.  My thinking here is that in past tense a punishment on the bottom is more funny than one on the hand.  Furthermore, I know that the strap was also in use at Poundswick at that time.  We also know that in nearly all cases of the strap being used on female pupils then it was applied on the hand.  If Miss Nicholls was going to punish Alison on her hand then why didn’t she simply use the strap?  Finally, we know that this punishment took place at the lower school, I have no evidence for it, however, I think it is more likely that younger female pupils were more likely to be punished on the bottom than the older ones.  Of course these thoughts are just speculation and I wouldn’t be too surprised if it was applied to her hand.  Lets hope that the punishment book for the period of interest surfaces. or at least further information

I, Researcher,

Was the Poundwick High School Group a mixed or girls only school?  What are sometimes called mixed or just ‘a school’ may have been in practice two separate schools side by side. My grammar school was in fact two separate schools that only shared a main assembly hall and dining hall, school kitchen facilities. The facilities were lockable from either side.  The girls used the assembly hall first each morning with the doors to the boys school firmly locked.

I have to agree that bottom slippering may have been used only on younger girls. I remember seeing a few infants section girls, 5 to almost 8, getting the backs of thighs slapped in class, skirts ups with slaps just below their knickers. Boys there had much the same, we all wore shorts trousers at that age. I’m talking of the mid 1950s.

It also has to be remembered that plenty of girls had their bottoms spanked at home by their parents. Home discipline varied far more than school punishments.
There is no doubt that many girls were spanked well into their teens by their parents. Girls in their teens back then were subject to far more parental rules than boyt. I remember some of my early girlfriends having to be in on time quite early.

Hello I, Researcher,

Thank you.  An excellent and informative response to my query in #77, and to your usual very high standards.   Since Ian and Robert were pulling Alison’s hair and the retaliation they provoked got her slippered I wonder if they were slippered in front of the lower school with her.   That would have been only just, but alas justice and school corporal punishment quite frequently did not go hand in hand.

Like many schools Poundswick High School had a chequered history.  By the time Alison commenced there age 11 in 1972 it had gone from being Pounswick Grammar School founded in 1956 to being a comprehensive high school via a 1967 merger with Oldwood Secondary Modern school.   Later, in 1999, Poundswick High School and South Manchester High School merged to form Parklands High School on the Poundswick site.  Then in 2009 Parklands High School became Manchester Enterprise Academy, a coeducational secondary school and sixth form with academy status.

In  UK usage ‘lower school’ has had various meanings, sometimes the first few years of secondary school, but most commonly now  secondary school below the sixth form.  In the Poundswick High School of Alison’s day I suspect. it would have had the former meaning.  I am in full agreement with your excellent analysis of the probability that Alison’s slippering in front of the lower school was on the bottom.  One can only hope that having been the direct cause of a young lady suffering such an undignified. and doubtless at the time fairly traumatic fate, Ian and Robert got it too!