Many thanks for your prompt and illuminating response to my questions.

Your system has much to commend it.

A further observation if you will permit me is to note that ‘on appeal’ those present at an official caning could vary considerably. I have always felt that some degree of maturity in these situations would be essential, surely matrons assistants would be quite junior in age and status? Perhaps not the best assessors of what constitutes a fair and just caning? It may be of course that matron herself is not the elderly grandma that we might expect! Also the counsellors you speak of may well be in the same category as the matron’s assistants.

Finally could you tell us if the two regualar female users of the cane are mature experienced teachers? Knowing how your school has honed it’s methods over the years I would expect them to be quite senior and have your approval as cane users. How would you respond to a request by a much younger inexperienced teacher wanting to use the cane? Would you refuse, thereby running in the face of EO? Or would you carry out some training and assessment?

Elaine
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Sarajane
Jul 27, 2002#12
Dominum,

What ‘Elaine’ means is – are any of your females caners young and nubile and, in the sad event that they’re not, how would you go about training a young attractive female teacher (perhaps an ex-Miss Australia finalist?) to cane boys bottoms?

I suggest you attach a box of Kleenex tissues to your reply.

And perhaps ‘Elaine’ would like to consider having a windscreen wiper fitted to ‘her’ monitor?
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Jockie
Jul 27, 2002#13
Don’t be subtle now……gie the dagger another wee twist!
You are awfull but I like you!
Jockie xxx
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Dominum
Jul 27, 2002#14
Dominum,

What ‘Elaine’ means is – are any of your females caners young and nubile and, in the sad event that they’re not, how would you go about training a young attractive female teacher (perhaps an ex-Miss Australia finalist?) to cane boys bottoms?

I suggest you attach a box of Kleenex tissues to your reply.

And perhaps ‘Elaine’ would like to consider having a windscreen wiper fitted to ‘her’ monitor?
While you may well be correct, personally I feel it’s a better practice to assume a person is honest, and sincere in their posting until I see clear evidence that it isn’t so.

I’d rather assume innocence and wait for proof of guilt. Especially in cases like this, where I can see no potential for harm.

I think you provide an interesting perspective by pointing out those you have doubts about, and I think you are probably mostly right. But I’ll take a different approach.

Dominum
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Sarajane
Jul 27, 2002#15
Dominum,

Yes, by all means assume that people and their enquiries are what they purport to be.

After all, not to do so would deny you the opportunity of answering their lovely questions.
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Dominum
Jul 27, 2002#16
Dominum
Many thanks for your prompt and illuminating response to my questions.

Your system has much to commend it.

A further observation if you will permit me is to note that ‘on appeal’ those present at an official caning could vary considerably. I have always felt that some degree of maturity in these situations would be essential, surely matrons assistants would be quite junior in age and status? Perhaps not the best assessors of what constitutes a fair and just caning? It may be of course that matron herself is not the elderly grandma that we might expect! Also the counsellors you speak of may well be in the same category as the matron’s assistants.

Finally could you tell us if the two regualar female users of the cane are mature experienced teachers? Knowing how your school has honed it’s methods over the years I would expect them to be quite senior and have your approval as cane users. How would you respond to a request by a much younger inexperienced teacher wanting to use the cane? Would you refuse, thereby running in the face of EO? Or would you carry out some training and assessment?

Elaine
Click to expand…
It is certainly true that if appeals occur, we can have a wide variation of people present. Theoretically, if a boy appealed to myself (or the head), the matron, and the counselor, there could be three witnesses there – and he’d be perfectly within his rights to do so.

But appeals of any sort are actually very rare, and double or triple appeals, almost unheard of.

As to maturity – judgement is necessary. While age can bring wisdom (it has to have some benefit), and maturity can have a positive impact on a person’s ability to make sensible decisions, that doesn’t mean that younger people are unable to do so. Our health staff, and our counseling staff are employed because we value their expertise, and we rely on it. I think they are perfectly capable of rendering an opinion in their areas of expertise – and that is what they are supposed to do, when listening to appeals. While they don’t have to explain their decision – they can simply veto a caning and not give any reason (this is allowed to protect confidentiality) – and so they could make rulings on areas outside their professional area, if they chose to do so, we rely on their proffesionalism in doing their jobs. I really don’t think we have any issues of concern in terms of their maturity.

It’d be impolite to comment in detail on matron’s age, but she is an experienced woman. And at least one of her deputies is actually considerably older (she is semi-retired, more or less filling in on a casual basis).
The two female staff members who use the cane with any regularity, are experienced teachers, who do hold senior staff positions. How would I respond to a request by a young, inexperienced teacher. Very simply – “No.”

Inexperienced is the key there. There’s no reason for an inexperienced teacher to have the use of the cane in our school in the modern world. And Equal Opportunity wouldn’t arise – we are permitted to make such decisions based on the experience of the teachers.

Once a teacher had some experience, we would consider such a request based on many factors. Their history as a teacher – do they have a history of losing their temper, things like that. Their position in the school – we’d be much more likely to approve it for a teacher who supervises a tutor group, than for a simple subject teacher, their likely need to use it – a teacher who mostly teaches Form I classes is far less likely to need a cane than one who teaches Form III, which other teachers use the cane – for example, currently I would be more than willing to issue a cane to a teacher who mostly teaches Form IV classes than one who teaches mostly Form V, simply because of the personalities of the two form masters involved.

It’s a very complex issue – we’d look at the teacher, we’d look at their reasons, we’d try and decide whether having such access would be beneficial or detrimental. A lot of it revolves around quite abstract judgements.

The thing is, it’s quite rare for someone to *ask* for this. A few teachers at the school – such as myself – came in at a time when it was basically assumed that we would have the power to cane – we didn’t have to use it, but we could. For the others, it’s not something they asked for – it’s a right they were given. After somebody – more often after a fairly informal group – decided they should have it – generally it seems that after they’ve been at the school around 10 years, somebody will bring it up. Or after they were moved into a position which conferred that right – all form masters (mistresses) and the deputies, all house masters (mistresses) and their deputies, for example (unless the right has been withdrawn for some reason – not an issue at the moment, but it has been). Not all use it – but they have that right. Occasionally a teacher will refuse the right – but that is very rare. I think most have concluded that even if you never intend to use it, there are times it helps if the boys are never entirely sure.
Dominum
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James
Jul 27, 2002#17
Dominum,

Yes, by all means assume that people and their enquiries are what they purport to be.

After all, not to do so would deny you the opportunity of answering their lovely questions.
Sarajane,

training attractive women to cane boys bottoms is an excellent idea, one which if i may say so, without false modesty, i have given some time and thought to myself. Before you make the suggestion, i am in no need of any Kleenex tissues because like you, my interest is purely scientific.
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Sarajane
Jul 27, 2002#18
I’m delighted to hear it, James.

I was beginning to think I was the only decent person on the site
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Jockie
Jul 27, 2002#19
But…..But………whit aboot me?
Am ah no decent? or jay?
Sulking aff tae get a pallet o Kleenex…….ma heart is broked!
Jockie.
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Elaine
Jul 28, 2002#20
It is certainly true that if appeals occur, we can have a wide variation of people present. Theoretically, if a boy appealed to myself (or the head), the matron, and the counselor, there could be three witnesses there – and he’d be perfectly within his rights to do so.

But appeals of any sort are actually very rare, and double or triple appeals, almost unheard of.

As to maturity – judgement is necessary. While age can bring wisdom (it has to have some benefit), and maturity can have a positive impact on a person’s ability to make sensible decisions, that doesn’t mean that younger people are unable to do so. Our health staff, and our counseling staff are employed because we value their expertise, and we rely on it. I think they are perfectly capable of rendering an opinion in their areas of expertise – and that is what they are supposed to do, when listening to appeals. While they don’t have to explain their decision – they can simply veto a caning and not give any reason (this is allowed to protect confidentiality) – and so they could make rulings on areas outside their professional area, if they chose to do so, we rely on their proffesionalism in doing their jobs. I really don’t think we have any issues of concern in terms of their maturity.

It’d be impolite to comment in detail on matron’s age, but she is an experienced woman. And at least one of her deputies is actually considerably older (she is semi-retired, more or less filling in on a casual basis).
The two female staff members who use the cane with any regularity, are experienced teachers, who do hold senior staff positions. How would I respond to a request by a young, inexperienced teacher. Very simply – “No.”

Inexperienced is the key there. There’s no reason for an inexperienced teacher to have the use of the cane in our school in the modern world. And Equal Opportunity wouldn’t arise – we are permitted to make such decisions based on the experience of the teachers.

Once a teacher had some experience, we would consider such a request based on many factors. Their history as a teacher – do they have a history of losing their temper, things like that. Their position in the school – we’d be much more likely to approve it for a teacher who supervises a tutor group, than for a simple subject teacher, their likely need to use it – a teacher who mostly teaches Form I classes is far less likely to need a cane than one who teaches Form III, which other teachers use the cane – for example, currently I would be more than willing to issue a cane to a teacher who mostly teaches Form IV classes than one who teaches mostly Form V, simply because of the personalities of the two form masters involved.

It’s a very complex issue – we’d look at the teacher, we’d look at their reasons, we’d try and decide whether having such access would be beneficial or detrimental. A lot of it revolves around quite abstract judgements.

The thing is, it’s quite rare for someone to *ask* for this. A few teachers at the school – such as myself – came in at a time when it was basically assumed that we would have the power to cane – we didn’t have to use it, but we could. For the others, it’s not something they asked for – it’s a right they were given. After somebody – more often after a fairly informal group – decided they should have it – generally it seems that after they’ve been at the school around 10 years, somebody will bring it up. Or after they were moved into a position which conferred that right – all form masters (mistresses) and the deputies, all house masters (mistresses) and their deputies, for example (unless the right has been withdrawn for some reason – not an issue at the moment, but it has been). Not all use it – but they have that right. Occasionally a teacher will refuse the right – but that is very rare. I think most have concluded that even if you never intend to use it, there are times it helps if the boys are never entirely sure.
Dominum
Click to expand…
Dominum

Aagain many thanks for your prompt response. Your answers to my queries were what I would have expected given your standing on the topic.

SJ is quickly becoming the witchfinder general of the BB! Whilst the wit is sometimes funny, it does get a little tiresome at times. But thanks again, it is so rare to find someone with current knowledge practised in a sane and perfectly legal educational environment in the 21st Century!

Elaine
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