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kevinont19513
bripuk wrote: I thought the Canadian strap was only ever used across the backside. In the film the culprit has it across his hand in a similar procedure to that used in Scotland.
Not sure which film you are referring to….but in Canadian schools it was common for ruler or rare strap to be done to the hands, the bottom was uncommon for any punishment in public schools
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bripuk40930
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kevinont19513
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Another_Lurker10K289
The video referenced by bripuk is linked by sadly missed contributor Dean Clarke aka kostkalad in the foundation post of the third thread I linked in my 31 March 2018 post above. It is to be found at YouTube here:
The prior run up to the punishment and discussion regarding SCP is worth watching but for the impatient the belting action is to be found after 5:30, but we do not actually see the strokes, only (apparently) hear them. However the strap is then clearly seen. Our Canadian School Strap expert HH commented on the video lower down the thread (4th contribution). Amongst many other interesting observations he notes that apparently the strap displayed was the genuine article, and he didn’t think he’d ever seen that in a video before. He says that it is “a longer red with black stripe model, as often supplied by Christie School Supplies from Brandon, Manitoba” and that “These are particularly sought-after by collectors as they’re harder to find”.
There are more discussions, backed by screen shots etc., as the thread continues.
Hello bripuk,
I believe that you are correct in believing that in Canadian judicial punishments, whether as part of a sentence or for disciplinary infractions in detention, where a strap was used it was used on the buttocks, in fact on the bare buttocks with the prisoner restrained in a suitable posture.
The straps used were apparently leather, and heavier than the rubber/textile school straps. Also they generally had a wooden handle. Interestingly somewhere in one of the Canadian Strap threads (not sure if it is one of the ones I linked) is a discussion I had with HH concerning the fate of the 30 women given 10 strokes of the strap each following the riot (so-called, more of a justified protest really) at the Andrew Mercer Reformatory for Females in Toronto, Ontario in 1948.
The event led to something of a public outcry regarding the use of corporal punishment for imprisoned women, and a consequent defence thereof by more conservative (or retributive) authorities. I had found and linked a contemporary statement (in the Provincial Parliamentary records if I recall correctly) by a politician who claimed something to the effect that it was nothing more than a few whacks on the bottom and that he’d seen the type of strap used which was pretty much like those people had encountered in school.
However HH was fairly sure that school type straps were not used in prisons. He noted though that a few schools did have handles on their straps. He wondered if the politician concerned might have attended such a school and wrongly thought that handled straps were in general use. Then, on seeing the prison strap, probably only briefly, and noting that it also had a handle, assumed that it was the same thing.
It is certainly the case that many people wrongly assume that what happened in their school as regards SCP happened in all similar schools. We see constant evidence of that in this Forum so HH may well have been correct. Sadly most of the evidence still around, such as it is, seems to indicate the unfortunate female rioters suffered a fate not totally dissimilar to the strapping punishment in male prisons, which is extensively documented on the excellent CorPun site.
Certainly a claimed ‘recreation’ of a strapping in a Canadian female prison by an early entrant to the adult CP video market had the recipient secured by wrists and ankles face down prone on a bench with bottom bared. Equality be darned, there was precious little of it around in 1948 anyway. One can only hope that the Mercer Reformatory ladies got their 10 strokes with something rather less formidable than the sometimes fearsome Canadian male prison straps!
Sorry, I didn’t see your contribution until I’d posted the above.
I presume that as you went to school in Ontario and have ‘ont’ terminating your username you may have some connection with the Province. In Canadian terms Kitchener is practically next door to Toronto. Have you ever encountered any local material on the Andrew Mercer Reformatory strappings in 1948 which you could share here please?
I am interested to note your comments to the effect that school strappings were often not much discussed by those in receipt of them and were often conducted in private. Would it be your assessment that being strapped at school was regarded as particularly serious and as quite shameful for the recipient please? That certainly seems to be the implication in the video.
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kevinont19513
here is a link by the Toronto Library…has links to various news articles on it, the reformatory closed in 1969 and as recently as 2004 the Canadian government was still giving survivors compensation, in this case a women that was there for 60 years, Velma Demerson. The old site now has a stadium built on it in Toronto. A place for women was open in Brampton, Ontario after the closure, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanier_Centre_for_Women, Side note there is still a huge prison for men in Milton visible as you drive in to the city from where i live.
Link for Mercer
Another_Lurker wrote: Hello kevinont,Sorry, I didn’t see your contribution until I’d posted the above.
I am interested to note your comments to the effect that school strappings were often not much discussed by those in receipt of them and were often conducted in private. Would it be your assessment that being strapped at school was regarded as particularly serious and as quite shameful for the recipient please? That certainly seems to be the implication in the video.
I can only speak of my memory of school (no internet no research) and how i thought then and my reflection now looking back.
When real young i was 7, you may have seen the odd swat by a teacher/principal to the bottom, i received one then for throwing a tantrum in class when we were doing a class event. But in saying that i can not recall seeing much of that or remembering it, it probably did not stand out, pretty common for warning shots then. The only one i remembered with clarity was mine. There was the odd ruler to hands you heard about but from what i remember the student usually was sent out to hall to be talked to and maybe get a few swats to hands with a ruler not a strap, i received a few in those years. A couple times i saw a warning shot with a ruler to a hand, including my self. But in reflecting back i think it was the same as the swats nothing stood out to say it happened often, it was a norm it the class room and halls. If there was a strap in the office in the younger grades like age 11 and younger, i never saw it or heard about anyone getting it at school, it was more when we went to the 7-8 school (12/13) that it was in plain view in the office i think more as a scare tactic looking back.
Back to your question, this my feelings on reflection and at the time, i knew the majority of children had been spanked at home in my neighbor hood and many with a strap or belt, both boys and girls. Some more then others but you knew at home in the play grounds, hearing about this friends brother or sister getting in trouble/ spanked etc. The odd time in gym change room you could see someone had been spanked at home.Myself and sister were spanked a lot with a belt, that i know for sure. You knew this then because of comments like boy did i get it at home or i got in trouble when i got home and could not sit etc. But in saying that at school it was never really discussed, you knew it was a possibility to get a strap in those older grades, the threat of it and i knew if i got it i would get it 10 times worst at home.So you avoided it or getting caught!
In my opinion yes it was very serious and shameful to get spanked at school, especially with a strap, i never told my friends i told them i got ruler. At 12 and 13 you start to notice the opposite sex, you dont want people to know that you still get in trouble that a strap was needed because of how bad you were at school. AS in the video, you certainly did not want to get teased by your peers and foes.Children can be harsh lol. So was i the only one that got strap to hands or bottom that year at the school, ill never know, but i suspect i was not. There was no rumors i could remember and i was at the time worried i was the only one and did not want anyone to find out(side note the fact my pants came down did not really bother me at time other then some embarrassment, looking back now it would never of happened now a days). The only ones that i know knew i got strap was the vice principle ( i would assume a record was kept) my sister(my dad wanted her to know what could happen, she was also given a minor spanking for something ) and parents, especially my dad that gave another spanking at home.
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Another_Lurker10K289
Thank you for your extremely comprehensive and very prompt replies to my several queries. Very greatly appreciated indeed.
The Mercer material is fascinating but chilling. Who could possibly justify on any pretext whatsoever keeping female prisoners in conditions like that? Seven foot by five foot windowless cells with brick walls; and then subjecting them to degrading and painful corporal punishment when they actively protested their treatment. Many of them had not even committed any crimes but were merely regarded as difficult or out of control by various authorities having some power over them.
Your extensive comments and information on the SCP you encountered at school, how it was conducted and the student attitude to it are most interesting. It comes over very clearly that being subjected to corporal punishment at home was nothing unusual and did not involve any particular disgrace or shame. At school however corporal punishment was evidently very much a threat which lurked in the shadows. Not often seen and if encountered not usually discussed much at school and regarded as shameful by the recipient and possibly by other students.
I’ll respond more fully as soon as possible. I note some parallels to my own experience as well as substantial differences.
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kevinont19513
Another_Lurker wrote: Hello kevinont,I’ll respond more fully as soon as possible. I note some parallels to my own experience as well as substantial differences.
ok it will be interesting thanks
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dane40520